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Gun Control & RKBA

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EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
Tue Oct 20, 2015, 07:11 AM Oct 2015

Questions the left won't discuss about gun control, but should - and soon. [View all]

I have been having the gun control debate with people on the left for decades now and there's a few questions no one will discuss rationally... by that I mean any attempt to have a discussion turns into an argument ... or worse...

I'd like to try again here, and see if we can have a reasonable discussion, with the aim of better understanding the issues at hand and potentially demand more meaningful things from our politicians - and ourselves.

Who's game?

Question 1: Bearing in mind that no one ACTUALLY believes we can reduce gun violence to zero, and bearing in mind the sacrifices that would be needed to reduce violence past a certain point, what is the percentage of current gun violence you could "live with" as an American?

A few examples of how you might think of this question:

- We have lost more people to guns than we lost in WW2, in the last 15 years. That's a lot of people. Would you be willing to accept a 20% reduction in that, if it meant that the fundamental "right" to guns is basically left intact.

- Handguns account for between 65-75% of gun violence in America. Would you be willing to remove them - by force if need be - to get the gun violence rate down by 40-50%?

So - what percentage can you live with, or if you like, what percentage can America sustain long-term?

I ask THIS question, partially, because no politician will dare predict the lives their policies would save, if they were passed, largely because - IMO - the numbers would be so insignificant that they dare not admit it publicly. For example, Hillary's suggestions - at best - would only reduce gun violence by 10%, and probably more like 2-3%... which means she'd have to admit that her plan would at best mean that 2700 children would still be shot every year in America. Hardly a vote getter.

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I think registration of all handguns would be safeinOhio Oct 2015 #1
Thanks EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #2
New York has had that ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #43
In that case safeinOhio Oct 2015 #47
It's the only way EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #50
It will never happen. Straw Man Oct 2015 #56
well.. EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #60
Are you sure ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #61
See here's the thing EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #65
The thing(s). Straw Man Oct 2015 #68
It's been done EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #70
No, it hasn't. Straw Man Oct 2015 #77
A push was made to ban handguns in the early-mid 70s... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #82
No attempt has ever been made EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #87
Google "National Coalition to Ban Hanguns..." Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #94
forming a coalition EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #111
Well, even I wouldn't equate the anti-gunners with flying pig advocacy.... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #131
You forget we aren't searched when entering NY state. jeff47 Oct 2015 #53
Prohibition banned alcohol from sea to shining sea. Straw Man Oct 2015 #57
Somehow, it works for every other industrialized nation. jeff47 Oct 2015 #62
The picture is far more complex ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #63
I've heard that exact argument used about MJ, against CO. beevul Oct 2015 #135
Fact check dot org safeinOhio Oct 2015 #69
welcome to DU discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #3
thanks... and... EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #4
other than a media campaign about... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #7
wellll.... EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #9
politics is about barter discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #10
the problem there EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #11
and what is it that pro-control is bringing to the table? n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #12
welll... EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #14
sure but you would need to PROVE that your law would absolutely improve... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #16
ehhh EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #20
one of the issues is the lack of common ground discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #23
Our present laws have cut the murder rate in half hack89 Oct 2015 #35
no EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #51
So isn't the solution to a suicide "epidemic " hack89 Oct 2015 #59
one problem discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #64
absolutely not EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #66
But there are no gun control measures short of confiscation hack89 Oct 2015 #67
lol EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #71
You at least admit you have no realistic solution hack89 Oct 2015 #74
Yup, Ireland's always been such a peacful, safe place with no violence to speak of DonP Oct 2015 #75
Theres that ugly word again. beevul Oct 2015 #13
decades of gun control is a stretch EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #15
See the national firearms act of 1934, do the math, and get back to me. beevul Oct 2015 #18
no EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #72
I hate to point out the obvious... beevul Oct 2015 #83
Well... EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #86
You recognize some of the obvious politics, branford Oct 2015 #95
of course not EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #108
You've proven my point. branford Oct 2015 #118
as you say EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #121
Do you wonder why gun rights are expanding? branford Oct 2015 #139
there's the catch 22 EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #142
Define "and it wil be painful" sarisataka Oct 2015 #146
except your predictions on demographic shifts are assumptions gejohnston Oct 2015 #147
So, at least we've implicitly established that you really have no intention branford Oct 2015 #148
except EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #149
except not gejohnston Oct 2015 #152
Excuse me? branford Oct 2015 #153
So your examples are EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #154
Ah, nothing is as heart warming as a child's simple faith. DonP Oct 2015 #155
Another echo discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #126
Interesting. beevul Oct 2015 #97
10K kids injured and 3000 dead by guns a year EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #123
Yeah, like I said. Brady sycophant. beevul Oct 2015 #134
you need to read more carefully EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #143
but they are not children gejohnston Oct 2015 #144
The operative word, I believe, was 'children'. beevul Oct 2015 #145
riiiiight EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #150
So far, you're following the typical brady bunch script. beevul Oct 2015 #151
Most Americans don't like bartering with our rights yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #26
How about life liberty and the persuit of happyness are those rights? upaloopa Oct 2015 #129
All these good things are mentioned nowhere in the Constitution friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #140
there is a meme for that gejohnston Oct 2015 #17
the thing is EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #21
no they haven't gejohnston Oct 2015 #24
Excellent post..n/t Kang Colby Oct 2015 #30
sigh EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #44
Crickets..... safeinOhio Oct 2015 #48
Crickets? No. gejohnston Oct 2015 #90
Your WaPo articles speaks to gun violence, not violence as a whole as GE was speaking. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #54
Ive never said anything about house to house searches. safeinOhio Oct 2015 #92
Coincidentally, my post was not in response to any of your posts. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #96
the memes were a valid point gejohnston Oct 2015 #89
Would registration of handguns safeinOhio Oct 2015 #5
I suppose registration might be okay but... discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #6
good to see you discntnt_irny_srcsm Oct 2015 #8
Welcome. I will respond when I have time to consider your questions thoroughly... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #19
ha! EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #22
Maybe and no. ileus Oct 2015 #25
I would restrict concealed carry permits to trained professionals with a demonstrated need. Maedhros Oct 2015 #27
Like it does in Vermont or Maine? n/t Kang Colby Oct 2015 #28
I'm not familiar with those states' concealed weapon laws. Maedhros Oct 2015 #31
In Maine and Vermont... Kang Colby Oct 2015 #32
Correlation is not causation. Maedhros Oct 2015 #33
I wasn't suggesting that it was. I was simply pointing out that a carrying populace does not Kang Colby Oct 2015 #34
It's not a phobia - it's a reasonable preference. Maedhros Oct 2015 #37
welll.... EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #41
No, it isn't, is it. Straw Man Oct 2015 #40
no need for utopia EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #42
Oh, the irony ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #45
Compare it however you want EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #49
Why not -- it works for you. Straw Man Oct 2015 #55
birds like warm weather jimmy the one Oct 2015 #52
Jimmy painfully elaborates the obvious. Straw Man Oct 2015 #58
is he or isn't he? jimmy the one Oct 2015 #73
Once more, Jimmy. Straw Man Oct 2015 #76
hypothesis defined for ray bolger's buddy jimmy the one Oct 2015 #78
Double duh. Straw Man Oct 2015 #79
I think, therefore I believe jimmy the one Oct 2015 #81
Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #84
think again, my irrefutable rebuttal jimmy the one Oct 2015 #124
Stop letting dictionaries do your thinking for you. Straw Man Oct 2015 #137
arguing the absurd again he is jimmy the one Oct 2015 #156
So ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #157
absurdum ad infinitum jimmy the one Oct 2015 #158
Belief. Straw Man Oct 2015 #159
"Too bad no one but the two of us is reading it." Incorrect, unfortunately for the Stuart heir friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #160
A favor, if you would... sarisataka Oct 2015 #85
Why do controllers only care about "gun violence"? Kang Colby Oct 2015 #29
How do you figure EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #38
Yes. And ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #46
There are many ingredients. deathrind Oct 2015 #36
Very true EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #39
I currently "live with" tens of thousands of alcohol-related deaths a year... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #80
in fact EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #88
This kind of data we have all heard and argued many times... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #91
there is no evidence to support gejohnston Oct 2015 #93
3 polls say gun ownership rates have fallen since '93 jimmy the one Oct 2015 #125
actually, only GSS actually says that gejohnston Oct 2015 #128
abracadabra, and he thinks he wins jimmy the one Oct 2015 #136
Allow me to reframe your question: guillaumeb Oct 2015 #98
Their restrictions were not common sense gejohnston Oct 2015 #99
Define "common sense" in a way that does not posit certain guillaumeb Oct 2015 #100
fact is, there have been mass shootings, as my link documented gejohnston Oct 2015 #101
I should have said that there are no mass killings in other countries like in the US. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #104
entirely different cultures gejohnston Oct 2015 #106
I cannot speak for Australians, but in my view, the difference guillaumeb Oct 2015 #107
the firearms death includes suicides gejohnston Oct 2015 #110
Can we agree to disagree without being disagreeable? guillaumeb Oct 2015 #112
This message was self-deleted by its author gejohnston Oct 2015 #113
well EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #109
Agreed. Killing will continue no matter the weapon employed. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #114
21K are suicides gejohnston Oct 2015 #115
FBI says that 20k are suicide. guillaumeb Oct 2015 #116
Suicide in general gejohnston Oct 2015 #117
When I do suicide assessments gwheezie Oct 2015 #132
Gun control will not do much to save lives, that being said... Kalidurga Oct 2015 #102
I agree with some of what you are talking about gejohnston Oct 2015 #103
I don't know about the percent of stolen guns either. Kalidurga Oct 2015 #105
The only questions that I'm interested in addressing are: pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #119
and what would you propose EdwardBernays Oct 2015 #120
they don't increase gejohnston Oct 2015 #122
I would propose that a good start would be for folks like you pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #138
Let's see two threads today about people getting shot by reckless concealed carry upaloopa Oct 2015 #127
define vigilante shooter gejohnston Oct 2015 #130
you know what I mean upaloopa Oct 2015 #133
Not really, as you've been rather vague friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #141
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