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jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
7. historical diffs between open & concealed carry
Fri Aug 18, 2017, 08:21 AM
Aug 2017

link: .. in 1886, a Supreme Court decision, Presser v. Illinois, upheld a law forbidding groups of men to “parade with arms in cities and towns unless authorized.” For states, such a law was “necessary to the public peace, safety and good order.”

This is not an argument for banning open carry, but an argument for the illegality of the neo-nazi march in charlottesville, as it devolved akin to an armed militia march, which is what presser & his 400 militiamen in chicago were (unorganized militia).

link: Historically, lawmakers have deemed open carry a threat to public safety. Under English common law, a group of armed protesters constituted a riot, and some American colonies prohibited public carry specifically because it caused public terror. During Reconstruction, the military governments overseeing much of the South responded to racially motivated terror by prohibiting public carry either generally or at political gatherings and polling places.

Eh, can't really agree with some of the premises presented. I support banning open carry & shall issue ccw as well, & the article in general, but parts of the above are kinda misleading.
I believe when author write 'a group of armed {english} protesters constituted a riot', he left out 'for illegal purpose' (~1600 coke perhaps).

Historically open carry was allowed, especially in frontier areas due the threat of wandering thugs on horse, indian warfare, animal attacks, & later mexican border issues. Open carry musket with bayonet attached was usually disallowed, esp in cities, but unloaded muskets ok, jefferson advised it (for exercise!).
What was deemed a threat to public safety as mentioned above, were people carrying concealed weapons. The author above includes this when he writes 'prohibited public carry' but implies that open carry was the 'public carry', rather than ccw.
Someone walking into a bar (where guns were not prohibited) with a pistol on his belt, thereby identified himself as a gun owner, & people were aware of that & could monitor him & he would also be aware that he better keep his pistol in his holster or he could be attacked from a blind side.
Someone walking into a bar with a concealed pistol was moreso the problem, since he could suddenly go berserk if he thought he was being cheated at cards, or getting drunk & arguing etc..

Below are several states which had constitutional provisions, most cited were during reconstruction, & I suspect what are being referred to when author wrote this, conflating open carry with concealed carry (in the 'general sense'): During Reconstruction, the military governments overseeing much of the South responded to racially motivated terror by prohibiting public carry either generally or at political gatherings and polling places:

Kentucky: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons. § 1 (enacted 1891).

Louisiana: 1879: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged. This shall not prevent the passage of laws to punish those who carry weapons concealed."

Montana: {rkba etc} .. but nothing herein contained shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. Art. II, § 12 (enacted 1889)

NC: 1875: Same as 1868, but added "Nothing herein contained shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the Legislature from enacting penal statutes against said practice."


Oklahoma: {rkba} shall never be prohibited; but nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from regulating the carrying of weapons. (enacted 1907).

Texas: Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime. (enacted 1876).
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/beararms/statecon.htm

Texas recently cheated, turning the last sentence into justification for their legislature to OK open carry, twisting about 'with a view to prevent crime'. Ha. What would the 1876 texas legislature think now?

Ban the Open Carry of Firearms [View all] SecularMotion Aug 2017 OP
But what about Antonin Scalia and his "discovery" of what he called "original intent"? guillaumeb Aug 2017 #1
Scalia said you can ban open carry hack89 Aug 2017 #8
Ban them all. bullimiami Aug 2017 #2
We've Been Told sarisataka Aug 2017 #4
More blowback from your side's culture war krispos42 Aug 2017 #3
"Gun Control" is the most effective form of firearm proliferation known to this country. n/t Decoy of Fenris Aug 2017 #5
Agreed discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2017 #6
historical diffs between open & concealed carry jimmy the one Aug 2017 #7
I'm not being snarky Lokilooney Aug 2017 #9
heartbroken jimmy the one Aug 2017 #10
Translation Lokilooney Aug 2017 #12
You have no idea how much this pains me.. tortoise1956 Oct 2017 #33
Technically OC should discourage harassment and intimidation. ileus Aug 2017 #11
It wasn't just white supremacists and nazis who were armed at Charlottesville. EL34x4 Aug 2017 #13
Sounds like something Trump would say SecularMotion Aug 2017 #14
And if he said it, he would be correct. EL34x4 Aug 2017 #15
Civil Liberties Body ACLU Will No Longer Defend Gun-Carrying Protest Groups SecularMotion Aug 2017 #16
Do you support denying a Constitutional right based on being on a government list? The ACLU doesn't: friendly_iconoclast Aug 2017 #18
Their argument against using the no-fly watchlist is that the system is broken. SecularMotion Aug 2017 #20
What about states already using those lists to deny gun permits? New Jersey does: friendly_iconoclast Aug 2017 #21
I agree with the position of the ACLU SecularMotion Aug 2017 #22
I agree with it as well- also, that article is as clear as mud friendly_iconoclast Aug 2017 #23
If the ACLU had defended the 2nd amendment, the NRA would not be the political power it now is. Hangingon Aug 2017 #28
Sometimes folks that oppose carrying... discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2017 #17
These folks don't oppose carrying. They're proudly pro-gun and progressive. EL34x4 Aug 2017 #25
Rednecks! Obviously liberals! pablo_marmol Aug 2017 #19
I'll see your Blair Mountain and raise you a... discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2017 #24
! pablo_marmol Aug 2017 #27
To all my "retrumplican before country" brethren Tortue Aug 2017 #26
if you're addressing "retrumplican before country" brethren... discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2017 #29
I would stay away from any event where people were going to open carry Kaleva Sep 2017 #30
I have no problem with open carry. ManiacJoe Sep 2017 #31
I agree AR-15s on chest rigs are a bit more than open carry. mackdaddy Oct 2017 #32
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