Gun Control & RKBA

iverglas

(38,549 posts)

89. snork

Fri Mar 9, 2012, 03:26 PM

Mar 2012

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/10/03/the-constitution-doesnt-begin-and-end-with-the-second-amendment/

The worst statement I read about guns was a Facebook post I saw not long ago that made me as angry as I’ve been in years. The words were credited to someone named D. Michael Wiechman, about whom I could find no information besides his frequently referenced quote:

“A man with a gun is a citizen; a man without a gun is a subject.”

That’s the biggest bunch of crap I’ve ever read in such a short sentence. So Jared Loughner, Byron Williams, and Richard Poplawski are citizens, but I’m not a citizen? Paranoid right-wing militias are full of citizens, but I’m not a citizen? Deadbeat dad Joe Walsh is a citizen, but I’m not a citizen?

Owning guns doesn’t make anybody a citizen. The United States Constitution makes us all citizens. Understanding that the Constitution doesn’t begin and end with Second Amendment is a lesson of citizenship that we all need to learn.

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The Gun Is Civilization [View all] DWC Mar 2012 OP

Or, to put it another way: Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #1

"With guns we are citizens. Without them we are subjects" shadowrider Mar 2012 #2

I see you've changed your sig line iverglas Mar 2012 #36

Your insinuation is insulting and I can change my sig line again. shadowrider Mar 2012 #37

gosh, you'd almost think I wasn't referring to your previous sig line iverglas Mar 2012 #40

you don't seem to have answered my question iverglas Mar 2012 #41

Back off shadowrider Mar 2012 #44

no iverglas Mar 2012 #47

D. Michael Wiechman, May 14, 1996 n/t DWC Mar 2012 #88

snork iverglas Mar 2012 #89

Hah. Notice how our gun nuttiness has kept us from becoming subjects over the last 20 years? Doctor_J Mar 2012 #98

Over the last 20 years hundreds of thousands of "gunsters" DWC Mar 2012 #99

It's the rarely seen cousin to the 'your handgun won't do shit against petronius Mar 2012 #100

Which is excellent Doctor_J Mar 2012 #102

So by this logic we should allow Iran a nuclear weapon? JackintheGreen Mar 2012 #3

Iran should be allowed to do whatever its people want to do. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #4

I absolutely agree with you there. n/t JackintheGreen Mar 2012 #5

Yes! ellisonz Mar 2012 #11

I wish there were no nuclear weapons. But it is immoral to say "some for me, none for thee." Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #12

So we should have given Gaddafi a nuke? ellisonz Mar 2012 #15

I did not advocate GIVING nuclear weapons to anyone. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #16

lol - you might as well give'em to them Cowboy... ellisonz Mar 2012 #19

The answer is not more American imperialism. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #21

And bombs for the Tamil Liberation Tigers... ellisonz Mar 2012 #22

Again, I am not pro-proliferation. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #24

I think we already tolerate it as party to the NPT. ellisonz Mar 2012 #25

Are you even reading my posts? Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #27

I'm quoting your post. Why would you think I'm not reading them? ellisonz Mar 2012 #30

You aren't quoting the relevant parts. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #35

"You aren't quoting the relevant parts." - Oh I'm sorry... ellisonz Mar 2012 #45

Selling is not the same thing as developing. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #58

Why read... Clames Mar 2012 #31

got something to back that up? iverglas Mar 2012 #50

Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #52

there's one tiny distinction iverglas Mar 2012 #29

I have no idea why I am seeing this Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #33

poor you iverglas Mar 2012 #42

This message was self-deleted by its author ellisonz Mar 2012 #55

I care. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #59

Would it be logical to allow violent criminals to own firearms? spin Mar 2012 #13

And thus we reveal the reductio ad absurdum of the OP JackintheGreen Mar 2012 #17

+1000 ellisonz Mar 2012 #23

There is little that I can do to stop our nation from sending weapons... spin Mar 2012 #28

Can't refute the OP so try to change the subject. DWC Mar 2012 #20

I didn't change the subject JackintheGreen Mar 2012 #26

Actually, you did DWC Mar 2012 #32

OK, I see where we are at JackintheGreen Mar 2012 #38

here's where you're really at iverglas Mar 2012 #43

Duly noted JackintheGreen Mar 2012 #48

oh, you can still play! iverglas Mar 2012 #49

Pot/Kettle rl6214 Mar 2012 #60

"By SOP, this group is restricted to guns and gun law in the USA." ellisonz Mar 2012 #81

You are correct. My apologies. n/t DWC Mar 2012 #86

Sounds like it was written COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #6

Ah, insinuation and slurs. PavePusher Mar 2012 #8

Insinuation and slurs are what they use shadowrider Mar 2012 #9

No insinuation, and no slur COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #18

Agreed. ellisonz Mar 2012 #10

Historically, that is the way it's been done, unless people resist... Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #14

Thanks for the Heston quote. 2 thumbs up!!! DWC Mar 2012 #92

This article comes from a web site that has a enormous amount ... spin Mar 2012 #7

yes, you touted it here some years ago iverglas Mar 2012 #46

As I pointed out then ... spin Mar 2012 #51

the website is a commercial site iverglas Mar 2012 #53

Car and Driver is a publication and web site spin Mar 2012 #61

I believe you have made my point iverglas Mar 2012 #65

However I see little wrong with a web site or magazine ... spin Mar 2012 #66

and now you are avoiding the point iverglas Mar 2012 #68

Is there anything ethically wrong with running a website ... spin Mar 2012 #71

what are you on about? iverglas Mar 2012 #74

I refuse to go down the rabbit hole with you ... spin Mar 2012 #78

If you don't like it, then use your Admin powers to remove it. oneshooter Mar 2012 #79

thanks all the same iverglas Mar 2012 #80

it's that cornered kitty again! iverglas Mar 2012 #34

more about our source iverglas Mar 2012 #39

I found the supposed content source: ellisonz Mar 2012 #54

oh duh -- shadowrider's quote, right there iverglas Mar 2012 #56

Fuck Ron Paul ellisonz Mar 2012 #57

heh heh iverglas Mar 2012 #75

It'd be kinda interesting to keep a catalog of all the right-wing sources... DanTex Mar 2012 #63

as compared to their catalogue of progressive sources ;) iverglas Mar 2012 #77

This message was self-deleted by its author friendly_iconoclast Mar 2012 #101

Excellent find my brother...thanks for sharing. +1 ileus Mar 2012 #62

"find"? you had lost it??? iverglas Mar 2012 #69

I am tired of labels like pro gunner and antis era veteran Mar 2012 #64

It does often seem that those Democrats here who oppose firearm ownership... spin Mar 2012 #67

what Democrats oppose firearm ownership? iverglas Mar 2012 #70

The Right has its extreme anti-abortionists. The Left has DWC Mar 2012 #72

Good point. (n/t) spin Mar 2012 #73

if you don't get nauseous when you find bilge like that in your mouth iverglas Mar 2012 #76

"Both groups are anti-killing." ellisonz Mar 2012 #82

I absolutely denounce that view and, DWC Mar 2012 #84

fucking disgusting iverglas Mar 2012 #85

How ever you cut it, DEAD is DEAD. n/t DWC Mar 2012 #87

There are, of course, lunatics--some of whom probably consider themselves Democrats-- TPaine7 Mar 2012 #91

e - qui - vo - ca - a - shun ... iverglas Mar 2012 #93

Wait a minute! That fourth picture down: petronius Mar 2012 #94

oh nose iverglas Mar 2012 #96

Indeed, though I think "BULL - SHIT" is an even better description for your sophistry. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #95

Very well stated. Thanks !! n/t DWC Mar 2012 #97

Excellent observation...well stated. ileus Mar 2012 #90

interesting philosophy. thanks for the link. n/t Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2012 #83