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jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
50. jto checkmates the pretzel logic
Tue May 1, 2018, 07:17 AM
May 2018

tortoise: Notice 3 separate paragraphs? That is because Rawle was following the rules of English writing – when you have a change or modification to the train of thought you are pursuing, open a new paragraph.

You footstick again, due your inexperience with Wm Rawle. Unfortunately for you, Rawle footnoted a paragraph you refer to above, with a quote from englishman edward coke, who lived circa 1600.

Rawle, 1825: An assemblage of persons with arms, for an unlawful purpose, is an indictable offence, and even the carrying of arms abroad by a single individual, attended with circumstances giving just reason to fear that he purposes to make an unlawful use of them, would be sufficient cause to require him to give surety of the peace, If he refused he would be liable to imprisonment.8

footnote 8
: 3 Coke's Inst. 160. Hawkins, b. 1. c. 60.

pg 70 - 71: http://www.portagepub.com/dl/causouth/rawle.pdf

Rawle's footnote 8 is referring to Sir Edward Coke, an englishman who lived circa 1600, who published rules & regs regarding english law. So it's evident that Rawle was citing how englishmen would've handled the 'carrying of arms abroad'.
Checkmate on tortoise.
http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/coke-selected-writings-of-sir-edward-coke-vol-i--5/simple

tortoise: Notice he didn't talk about an assemblage in a foreign land in the first instance, so there is no reason to assume he was discussing foreign travel in the second instance. As a matter of fact, Rawle's precision in his writing would have led him to specify if he was using a word in other than the common accepted definition.

You footstick again. Rawle indeed denoted he was referring to foreign travel, ie england, by the footnote to Coke.
Here is the passage from Coke, from my paper to the scotus justices I was telling you about:

Jimmy the one wrote: .. in this particular paragraph, Rawle cited Edward Coke's 3rd Institutes of English Law, circa 1600: "Nor to bring force in affray of the country.. that if any doth enter into, or detaine with force any houses, lands, or tenements, the party grieved may have a writ upon his statute, directed to the sherif, by force of which writ, if the sherif find the force, then if any after proclamation made, (which proclamation is by reasonable construction to be made for avoiding of bloodshed) shall disobey, or if it be found by inquiry [??word uncertain], the sherif is to seize their armes and weapons, and to arrest and take the offenders and commit them to prison".
(There were several other similar decrees on carrying arms in England, by Coke, on the very page this was copied from. Rawle also cited Englishman Wm Hawkins - 1824, similarly worded english law).


Rawle was citing what could happen, by law, to unlawfully armed Englishmen, according to Edward Coke circa 1600's - not excluding foreigners or Americans if they went specifically to England and assembled with arms for unlawful purposes.... any armed assemblages or single individuals could be from any governments, such as Frenchmen visiting London. This applies to our argument in that Justice Scalia cannot single out the American RKBA as what Rawle was referring to, since Rawle's referring to Coke clearly marks the reference as English.
Note I cannot find an link to the exact coke quote this morning & have to go. Here is a link which might suffice, chap IV: http://files.libertyfund.org/files/911/0462-01_LFeBk.pdf

A question for this group-- [View all] digonswine Apr 2018 OP
And if you do carry "ready to go", as it were, why? guillaumeb Apr 2018 #1
well it depends The Polack MSgt Apr 2018 #2
Yeah -I know double-action digonswine Apr 2018 #3
even though i dont have guns , i was trained this way too. AllaN01Bear May 2018 #76
First, I understand busy, no need to reply at all to me discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2018 #4
that's reasonable- digonswine Apr 2018 #5
Cool I just haven't seen you around in this group much discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2018 #6
OK-maybe not control- digonswine Apr 2018 #11
I say control is myth because... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2018 #24
By "control"-I was referring to a person's feeling of being personally in control-- digonswine Apr 2018 #29
Like many Democrats, you are logical and respectful discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2018 #33
I can't say I agree with your idea of personal freedom- digonswine May 2018 #56
re: trust and personal freedom discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #58
A few things- digonswine May 2018 #61
A few more things. Straw Man May 2018 #62
One at a time- digonswine May 2018 #66
I think responding to you is most likely a waste of time- digonswine May 2018 #82
If it's such a waste of time, ... Straw Man May 2018 #87
I missed that I responded previously-time went by and I am a busy feller- digonswine May 2018 #90
replies on select if not most points discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #63
I did not see this post- digonswine May 2018 #74
I know teachers take a lot of work home discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #75
I don't want you to get the idea that... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #81
Hi-- digonswine May 2018 #83
Hi back at you discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #88
I did have a great holiday--thanks digonswine May 2018 #89
re: "School is a safe place..." discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #91
It's silly to take the founding fathers' ideas as perfect for today's problems- digonswine Jun 2018 #93
I promise to elaborate but also please check out #92 discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2018 #94
I think I covered most of your issues and questions... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2018 #95
You have been reasonable in discussion, which I appreciate, of course-- digonswine Jun 2018 #96
re: I have had enough of it and am probably done discussing it(maybe). discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2018 #97
Responses to a few discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #92
Why are there no warnings on guns that say you are more likely to be killed with a gun when you poss gejohnston May 2018 #64
Scientific American says different-- digonswine May 2018 #67
false delima gejohnston May 2018 #68
I can't agree- digonswine May 2018 #69
if it is locked to the outside, gejohnston May 2018 #70
I will reply in order of your responses- digonswine May 2018 #73
just a few things gejohnston May 2018 #78
There is no perfect response to a situation of an active shooter- digonswine May 2018 #79
If I might interject... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #71
You might- digonswine May 2018 #72
Take a look at this, oneshooter May 2018 #77
Before I retired I lived in a fairly bad section in the Tampa Bay Area. ... spin Apr 2018 #26
Every gun model that's designed for duty use or concealed carry HeartachesNhangovers Apr 2018 #7
It would seem to me that that is not terribly safe- digonswine Apr 2018 #9
If you are worried about a revolver discharging if dropped oneshooter Apr 2018 #17
I am not terribly worried about a dropped revolver-- digonswine May 2018 #85
I carry a gejohnston Apr 2018 #8
Please see my post (#9) digonswine Apr 2018 #10
About 8-10 pounds gejohnston Apr 2018 #14
The "New York trigger" for a Glock is 12lb. oneshooter Apr 2018 #18
Viral videos. Straw Man Apr 2018 #31
If I am carrying something sarisataka Apr 2018 #12
Well- digonswine Apr 2018 #13
I have not seen a lot sarisataka Apr 2018 #16
Hey, welcome to your own opinion! tortoise1956 Apr 2018 #23
2nd amendment mythology excerpt jimmy the one Apr 2018 #34
Speaking of mythology... tortoise1956 Apr 2018 #36
Carrying for self-defense generally means being able to draw and shoot quickly. krispos42 Apr 2018 #15
So-- digonswine Apr 2018 #21
Responsible people keep guns in this state only when... krispos42 Apr 2018 #27
I still can't see- digonswine Apr 2018 #28
There's a big difference ... Straw Man Apr 2018 #30
The question would seem to be "safe from what?" krispos42 Apr 2018 #35
I think the main reason that safeties on handguns HeartachesNhangovers Apr 2018 #19
I haven't carried in years, but when I did... aikoaiko Apr 2018 #20
I carry occasionally... tortoise1956 Apr 2018 #22
(redirected) British 'have arms' decrees jimmy the one Apr 2018 #37
"...the right to "have arms" embodied in the English Declaration of Rights... discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2018 #40
Scalia cited Ben Oliver in heller jimmy the one Apr 2018 #41
And in that regard: discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2018 #43
Earth to J1... tortoise1956 Apr 2018 #42
jto checkmates the pretzel logic jimmy the one May 2018 #50
redirected #2, prevention not disarmament jimmy the one Apr 2018 #38
Disarmament tortoise1956 Apr 2018 #44
arms embargoes jimmy the one May 2018 #47
redirected #3, Fort Pownal, Maine jimmy the one Apr 2018 #39
WTF are you talking about? tortoise1956 Apr 2018 #45
Ports mouth, common harbor jimmy the one May 2018 #46
And again with the calumnies... tortoise1956 May 2018 #49
how to lodge a complaint jimmy the one May 2018 #59
more contradictions jimmy the one May 2018 #60
correction on fort pownal jimmy the one May 2018 #51
I legally carry a snub nosed revolver. ... spin Apr 2018 #25
dig on spot on jimmy the one Apr 2018 #32
Correlation. Straw Man May 2018 #48
That last paragraph looks like crap. krispos42 May 2018 #65
fair points jimmy the one May 2018 #80
Most semi auto Timewas May 2018 #52
Neither do many that OC discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2018 #53
Glocks are safer than you say Alea May 2018 #54
Everyone Timewas May 2018 #55
Glocks just don't feel right in my hand. n/t oneshooter May 2018 #57
re you saying there should be limits regarding who carries what? Sure seems that way. digonswine May 2018 #84
Not at all Timewas May 2018 #86
I don't carry very frequently kudzu22 Jun 2018 #98
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