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jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
46. 1939 Miller decision makes your claims invalid
Thu Jun 6, 2019, 12:18 PM
Jun 2019

marvin gardens: ... just because an article of our Constitution was not interpreted in the past to protect an individual right, does not mean that it is illegitimate to interpret it that way now.
Is this changing interpretation of rights political? Yes, yes it is. The Constitution is ultimately a political document


Altering the construction of an amendment to fit modern thought is indeed invalid when the reinterpretation is based on revisionist history of the constitution, a distortion of original intent, & a contradiction of stare decisis thru over 2 centuries -- INVALID.
Were scalia & his supreme goon squad to have argued that under current modernity americans have a right to keep & bear arms based on 21st century popular belief, that would have been hard to argue against, but they didn't; scalia claimed that 2nd amendment had all along been intended to protect an individual right.

In 1939 the supreme court previously 'last' ruled on the 2ndA prior to 2008 heller/mcdonald, a unanimous 8-0 ruling in 1939 (1 recusal since new arrival) and offered these interpretations & opinions:

1939 supreme court Miller decision: UNANIMOUS DECISION FOR UNITED STATES The purpose of the Second Amendment was to maintain effective state militias; Congress could require registration of a 12-gauge sawed-off shotgun if carried across state lines
The Supreme Court reversed the district court, holding that the Second Amendment does not guarantee an individual the right to keep and bear a sawed-off double-barrel shotgun. Writing for the unanimous Court, Justice James Clark McReynolds reasoned that because possessing a sawed-off double barrel shotgun does not have a reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia, the Second Amendment does not protect the possession of such an instrument.

https://www.oyez.org/cases/1900-1940/307us174
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=207511

1939 Miller: The Constitution, as originally adopted, granted to the Congress power -- "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress."
With obvious purpose to assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness of such {militia] forces, the declaration and guarantee of the Second Amendment were made. It must be interpreted and applied with that end in view.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/307/174/case.html

This 1939 supreme court ruling on miller was UNANIMOUS. Not one justice felt the above wording to be wrong or misleading about any individual rkba, they clearly called it for the militia interpretation. Not one justice thought 'whoa fellow justices, look how we worded that, future generations are gonna think we're ruling for a militia interp' Nope, all thought it was proper wording.
.. Note also, the 9th recused justice later wrote a book or paper supporting gun control.

Tack on amicus brief citing adams by justice dept in 1938 to the 1939 supreme court re miller: In the only other case in which the provisions of the National Firearms Act have been assailed as being in violation of the Second Amendment, the contention was summarily rejected as follows:
The second amendment to the Constitution, providing, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed," has no application to this act. The Constitution does not grant the privilege to racketeers and desperadoes to carry weapons of the character dealt with in the act. It refers to the militia, a protective force of government; to the collective body and not individual rights. http://www.guncite.com/miller-brief.htm
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=207435

Thanks for posting this mainstreetonce May 2019 #1
... flamin lib May 2019 #2
The fact that Scalia redacted 1/2 of the 2nd Amendment to support his "originalist" view guillaumeb May 2019 #3
Scalia specifically said that the 2A allows strict gun control hack89 Jun 2019 #7
True, but he did need to dismiss 1/2 of the Amendment to support his claimed originalist argument. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #16
President Obama, HRC and Bernie Sanders have all said the 2A protects an individual right hack89 Jun 2019 #17
It was, for the Founders. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #19
Except they never wrote any laws to that effect hack89 Jun 2019 #20
The Founders were concerned with Federal issues. eom guillaumeb Jun 2019 #21
according to Barron v Baltimore, gejohnston Jun 2019 #22
But those same founders went back to their states to write state constitutions hack89 Jun 2019 #23
The Consistution does make a provision for a standing army gladium et scutum Jun 2019 #29
Agreed. Snackshack May 2019 #4
From a centrist establishment type, formerly someone evenkeeled. sharedvalues May 2019 #5
"(Y)ou will not smear them or Waldman." My my, aren't *we* full of ourselves! friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #6
You did smear Waldman. You know your argument is flawed. sharedvalues Jun 2019 #10
Ahem. You don't actually *get* to shape others' replies to you. Also... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #27
No, I do get to point out lies. sharedvalues Jun 2019 #31
Wait- if you buy guns or ammo you help get kids killed. sharedvalues Jun 2019 #32
"Pastor Robert Jeffress Says Disney Supports 'Murdering Children'... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #36
Deflection. Own your responsibility. sharedvalues Jun 2019 #37
Feh. Eric Hoffer explained people like you years ago: friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #42
"If the gun restrictionists quit aping the fetus fetishists, the meme will go away." friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #43
Thanks for that discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2019 #44
The Supreme Court agrees with Burger hack89 Jun 2019 #8
The Heller decision is a farce that puts kids at risk sharedvalues Jun 2019 #9
Heller specifically says the 2A allows strict gun control. hack89 Jun 2019 #13
You just don't understand *progressive* guilt by association friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #34
Lots of obvious propaganda techniques, little to no actual evidence friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #28
That's a dead kid. Sorry you don't like actual evidence. sharedvalues Jun 2019 #30
Blatant propaganda and cheap appeals to pity don't move me, and never have friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #33
Another Lovejoy. Straw Man Jun 2019 #35
Of rights and straw men. MarvinGardens Jun 2019 #11
"...a bit of a straw man." But I would rec this were it an OP discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2019 #14
Thanks! MarvinGardens Jun 2019 #15
1939 Miller decision makes your claims invalid jimmy the one Jun 2019 #46
Sounds like the gestation slavers claiming that Roe v Wade ought to be overturned friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #48
militia blasts from the past jimmy the one Jun 2019 #51
I'm neither impressed nor intimidated by mere bluster and chronic logorrhea friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #53
The modern N.C. constitution added the qualifier MarvinGardens Jun 2019 #66
1939 miller explained further jimmy the one Jun 2019 #76
You are laser focused on Miller and ignoring my other arguments in this thread. MarvinGardens Jun 2019 #77
It seems Con Law lectures at Internet Search Engine University focus on Miller... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #78
Let's see here... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2019 #79
Well, when you only have one decision, rendered because the defendant died, and the defense didn't AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #81
If I understand you, sarisataka Jun 2019 #12
re: "...better to submit...than to defend one's self" discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2019 #24
With complete unawareness of the irony, sarisataka Jun 2019 #26
Perhaps if a whole city calls to request a police escort... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2019 #39
Burger's rant gejohnston Jun 2019 #18
If you buy guns and ammo you help get American kids killed. sharedvalues Jun 2019 #40
it wasn't gejohnston Jun 2019 #41
What consensus legal opinion? hack89 Jun 2019 #45
Once again, you've demonstrated that pious fraud is part and parcel of gun control advocacy friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #49
Miller? The case where the defense never made an argument? hack89 Jun 2019 #55
"(Miller) did not say that militia service is required for gun ownership." True... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #56
Pardon me for interjecting my rather focused discussion on Miller discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2019 #58
You weren't to notice those inconvenient details amidst all the bluster and handwaving friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #60
See reply below for legal opinion sharedvalues Jun 2019 #65
re: "Republicans love guns because gun identity politics gets people... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2019 #25
Wrong. I just checked. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2019 #38
1939 supreme court Miller decision re 2ndA jimmy the one Jun 2019 #47
Miller is no more valid today than Minersville School District v. Gobitis friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #50
And if it was, we'd all have the right to own an Army-issue (and fully automatic) M4... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #59
"a unorganized militia is NOT well regulated. It could not possibly be what madison intended" friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #61
IOW: "No *true* militia is unorganized" friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #63
Thank you - very good! sharedvalues Jun 2019 #80
Of course, because it's wrong in the same way your argument is wrong. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #82
I'm sorry you can't recognize truth when you see it. sharedvalues Jun 2019 #83
When I buy ammo, I give 11% to nature conservancy. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #86
You're having a discussion with someone who rewrote the dictionary discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2019 #85
Evangelists of all stripes want believers, not thinkers. Thinkers tend to ask pesky questions... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #87
When your "church" says the world is flat... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2019 #88
2A - Well regulated militia, not well armed minority bigbrother05 Jun 2019 #52
What are you doing to arm the majority? friendly_iconoclast Jun 2019 #54
There are so many appropriate quotes from the movie Lord of War discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2019 #84
Thanks. Yes. sharedvalues Jun 2019 #64
I hope to make this the subject of an OP, soon. MarvinGardens Jun 2019 #67
Only in America is the problem MythosMaster Jun 2019 #57
Welcome to the site and the group. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2019 #62
"The Founders never intended to create unregulated guns" yagotme Jun 2019 #68
? sharedvalues Jun 2019 #69
The way to "register" guns is to make a list, yagotme Jun 2019 #70
How does this work when semiautomatics are banned? sharedvalues Jun 2019 #71
It's 2 simple steps discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2019 #72
Good question. yagotme Jun 2019 #73
Guess its good they are regulated then. jmg257 Jun 2019 #74
It was never meant to be just militia. gejohnston Jun 2019 #75
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