Gun Control & RKBA

NewMoonTherian

(883 posts)

22. Speaking only for myself...

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:03 AM

Mar 2012

I have a huge problem with that.

If the burden of proof rests with the defense, I have to prove - probably without the benefit of any witnesses - that I acted in a way that satisfies the jury's subjective opinion of what's reasonable. If I fail at that monumental task, I'm a murderer. Where's the presumption of innocence? It doesn't apply in cases of claimed self-defense? Why not?

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What's wrong with "duty to retreat" [View all] TPaine7 Mar 2012 OP

The Constitution is valid liberal and progressive legislation. Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2012 #1

What does owning a gun have to do with this thread? Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #36

? Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2012 #38

How many gun owners that carry a gun daily actually "strap on a handgun"? rl6214 Mar 2012 #43

Sure they do. Lots of them. Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #51

Maybe in the 1800's you might strap on a gun nowadays, nope. rl6214 Mar 2012 #62

K&R. n/t X_Digger Mar 2012 #2

when threatened with candy, fight back nt msongs Mar 2012 #3

If you actually need help understanding the OP, get it. n/t TPaine7 Mar 2012 #4

If the police actually investigated gejohnston Mar 2012 #7

+1, n/t appal_jack Mar 2012 #15

Show me where in "a duty to retreat" safeinOhio Mar 2012 #5

Read 776.041 then tell me there is nothing the cops can do Kennah Mar 2012 #9

I never said "there is nothing the cops can do" safeinOhio Mar 2012 #13

Police have for a long time used excuses to help their buddies Kennah Mar 2012 #17

Problems with Florida's SYG law spelled out. safeinOhio Mar 2012 #18

It's right in front of your eyes. TPaine7 Mar 2012 #20

Sounds like one of the old Charles Atlas ads-- Bully kicks sand on skinny guy in front of his girl. Hoyt Mar 2012 #24

yes it would gejohnston Mar 2012 #28

"In front of his girl" TPaine7 Mar 2012 #29

I did not miss the point. You seem to think that a gun could/should be used when you have reasonable Hoyt Mar 2012 #32

Still insisting on missing the point? TPaine7 Mar 2012 #35

IF you want to play "what if" here is safeinOhio Mar 2012 #33

Where? You gave no link. N/T TPaine7 Mar 2012 #34

sorry, here it is safeinOhio Mar 2012 #46

Is that the same WaPo that's condemned shadowrider Mar 2012 #47

as you would say, forget the source safeinOhio Mar 2012 #58

I don't worry about sources. If the info is true, the source doesn't matter. shadowrider Mar 2012 #67

Many Americans have the same problem safeinOhio Mar 2012 #69

"I don't think DTR would apply to a guy with knife endangering your fiancee." TPaine7 Mar 2012 #37

Look, you can't use a gun when you feel threatened just because you stick a gun in your waistband. Hoyt Mar 2012 #42

Hoyt, what anti-gun organizations do you belong to? shadowrider Mar 2012 #48

Do you do more than sit behind keyboard and promote more guns, and provide cover when shit happens? Hoyt Mar 2012 #53

Deflect. shadowrider Mar 2012 #54

More of the same. eqfan592 Mar 2012 #49

Self-defense is a right appal_jack Mar 2012 #6

Self defense is a right that is protected by "duty to retreat" safeinOhio Mar 2012 #8

here is the problem I have gejohnston Mar 2012 #10

I agree that the problem is this PD, safeinOhio Mar 2012 #12

winning the suit is not the point gejohnston Mar 2012 #14

"prove his innocence in a criminal court" safeinOhio Mar 2012 #16

the civil issue is only part of the injustice. gejohnston Mar 2012 #19

If you take a life, I think safeinOhio Mar 2012 #30

there is a too great of risk of gejohnston Mar 2012 #31

Are you sure... discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2012 #41

Yeah, I read that as 'guilty until proven innocent' as well. n/t X_Digger Mar 2012 #59

SYG isn't new as some claim Kennah Mar 2012 #11

Excellent find. n/t X_Digger Mar 2012 #60

Speaking only for myself... NewMoonTherian Mar 2012 #22

Presumption of Innocence and Duty to Retreat sarisataka Mar 2012 #56

Nah, it requires them to determine probable cause. X_Digger Mar 2012 #61

Vague wording sarisataka Mar 2012 #63

Ehn, I'll concede the language is circuitous.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #64

Agreed n/t sarisataka Mar 2012 #65

Texas solved the civil trial problem by raising the level of evidence for a civil case to the same oneshooter Mar 2012 #66

Yeah. If France had only had the SYG COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #23

Reholster your hyperbole. PavePusher Mar 2012 #25

I don't know about SYG gejohnston Mar 2012 #26

Hey, careful now! Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #39

There is a reality Puzzledtraveller Mar 2012 #68

Because "shoot first and ask later" is so much easier for the shoot 'em up squad jpak Mar 2012 #21

as fucked up as Sanford PD is gejohnston Mar 2012 #27

How and why would Martin have killed Zimmerman? Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #40

because Zimmerman was trying to beat the crap out of him gejohnston Mar 2012 #44

"PD is using the law to cover up their stupidity, not justify it" Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #45

the law puts the burden of proof on the gejohnston Mar 2012 #50

Makes one wonder what they're waiting for, doesn't it? Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #52

no, under the old law gejohnston Mar 2012 #55

I am sure that you would rather carried by 6. oneshooter Mar 2012 #57