Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

spin

(17,493 posts)
52. You are looking at only one side of the equation, guns also stop and deter crime ...
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 10:41 PM
Dec 2011

While it's hard to obtain reliable studies, the ones available show that firearms are used in self defense between 64,615 times annually and 2.45 million times.


Gun violence in the United States

***snip***

Self-protection

Between 1987 and 1990, David McDowall found that guns were used in defense during a crime incident 64,615 times annually.[62] This equates to two times out of 1,000 incidents (0.2%) that occurred in this time frame.[62] For violent crimes (assault, robbery, and rape), guns were used 0.83% of the time in self-defense.[62] Of the times that guns were used in self-defense, 71% of the crimes were committed by strangers, with the rest of the incidents evenly divided between offenders that were acquaintances or persons well-known to the victim.[62] Of all incidents where a gun was used for self-defense, victims shot at the offender 28% of the time.[62] In 20% of the self-defense incidents, the guns were used by police officers.[62] During this same time period, 1987 and 1990, there were 46,319 gun homicides,[63] and the National Crime Victimization Survey estimates that 2,628,532 nonfatal crimes involving guns occurred.[62]

The findings of the McDowall's study for the American Journal of Public Health contrast with the findings of a 1993 study by Gary Kleck, who finds that as many as 2.45 million crimes are thwarted each year in the United States, and in most cases, the potential victim never fires a shot in these cases where firearms are used constructively for self-protection.[64] The results of the Kleck studies have been cited many times in scholarly and popular media.[65][66][67][68][69][70][71]

McDowall cites methodological issues with the Kleck studies, stating that Kleck used a very small sample size and did not confine self-defense to attempted victimizations where physical attacks had already commenced.[62] The former criticism, however, is inaccurate — Kleck's survey with Marc Gertz in fact used the largest sample size of any survey that ever asked respondents about defensive gun use — 4,977 cases, far more than is typical in national surveys.[72] A study of gun use in the 1990s, by David Hemenway at the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, found that criminal use of guns is far more common than self-defense use of guns.[73] By the Kleck study, however, most successful preventions of victimizations are accomplished without a shot being fired, which are not counted as a self-defense firearm usage by either the Hemenway or McDowall studies.[62][64][73] Hemenway, however, also argues that the Kleck figure is inconsistent with other known statistics for crime, citing that Kleck's figures apparently show that guns are many times more often used for self-defense in burglaries, than there are incidents of bulgaries of properties containing gun owners with awake occupants.[74] Hemenway concludes that under reasonable assumptions of random errors in sampling, because of the rarity of the event, the 2.5 million figure should be considered only as the top end of a 0-2.5 million confidence interval, suggesting a highly unreliable result that is likely a great overestimate, with the true figure at least 10 times less.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Self-protection


My daughter may well be alive today because she had access to a handgun and used it to stop an intruder breaking into our home. He was undeterred by the fact that a burglar alarm was sounding and a 60 pound black Lab was in the home but fled when my daughter pointed a large caliber revolver at him. My mother also stopped an attack by a man who was hiding behind some bushes and rushed her while she was walking home from work in the 1920s. She fired two shots over his head from her small revolver and he also ran.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Yep - and in a state which has even stricter gun control than you would like to see... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #1
Certainly points out what a failure gun control is hack89 Dec 2011 #2
Probably stolen. ellisonz Dec 2011 #3
Probably, maybe, who gots, whatever-r-r-r....nt SteveW Dec 2011 #4
You're the one making demonstrably false suppositions about the crime rate. n/t ellisonz Dec 2011 #9
I fail to see any demonstrably false suppositions or statements he has made about the crime rate We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #33
What false suppositions? Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #34
You continue to be prima facie wrong about your assertions/accusations. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #80
So the actual criminal is not at fault here? Got it. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #5
Not exclusively - no. ellisonz Dec 2011 #7
But it is enough for you to restrict my civil rights? nt hack89 Dec 2011 #15
Is it enough for you to have innocent victims suffering from your expansive sense of civil rights? ellisonz Dec 2011 #16
I like to drink beer - am I responsible for all those killed by drunk drivers? hack89 Dec 2011 #18
What if something bad happens over and over again. ellisonz Dec 2011 #19
We restrict the rights of those who have actually done something wrong, yes We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #23
Of course the problem is criminals - by definition they are the ones committing crimes. hack89 Dec 2011 #24
But not everyone else! Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #31
We restrict alcohol in other ways. ellisonz Dec 2011 #46
The problem with your mindset vis-a-vis gun is that MicaelS Dec 2011 #59
Again, define "punishment" vs. civic responsibility. ellisonz Dec 2011 #60
"Civic responsibility" seems to be the new "moral harm" friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #62
Ok. ellisonz Dec 2011 #63
A barrage of propaganda is no substitute for reasoned argument. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #68
Oh we've had the argument... ellisonz Dec 2011 #69
Civic responsibility MicaelS Dec 2011 #64
Analogies have limits - drinking and weak gun laws aren't the same. ellisonz Dec 2011 #66
Firearms are already handled this way. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #73
This message was self-deleted by its author friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #61
Criminality is exactly the problem one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #35
At this point... ellisonz Dec 2011 #45
You are looking at only one side of the equation, guns also stop and deter crime ... spin Dec 2011 #52
I haven't said once that I'm against concealed carry by trained and permitted citizens. ellisonz Dec 2011 #54
we think ours are common sense gejohnston Dec 2011 #70
I'm not denying that gun violence continues at unacceptably high levels... ellisonz Dec 2011 #71
Unacceptably high levels. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #74
I fail to understand how limiting the number of firearms that I own will reduce crime... spin Dec 2011 #77
I think the "thought" process behind this is.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #79
Actually, another thing that the pro-gunners are wrong about is that gun ownership rates... DanTex Dec 2011 #81
A study from the VPC? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #82
LOL... The data is from the General Social Survey. But thanks for playing! DanTex Dec 2011 #83
Oh I'm aware of the source We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #84
Empirical data does not show that gun ownership is up. DanTex Dec 2011 #85
My daughter worked for the census last year... spin Dec 2011 #87
They also seem to ahve a serious inability to read the Constitution properly... ellisonz Dec 2011 #88
What do you believe is being read improperly? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #91
Please reference your own post here: ellisonz Dec 2011 #92
Your rebuttal is extremely flawed. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #93
Could just as easily one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #6
You really need to read up on the Drug War... ellisonz Dec 2011 #8
You really need to read up on a lot of things We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #11
If you don't like it you can put me on ignore... ellisonz Dec 2011 #12
Nah - i like making fun of you. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #20
Okay Charlton... ellisonz Dec 2011 #25
so what? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #30
Sombody get that man a reloading press clffrdjk Dec 2011 #48
Don't take things so literally... ellisonz Dec 2011 #58
Ya know, you're not really being a great representative of the gun culture... DanTex Dec 2011 #36
I'm not trying to be We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #37
Where is the ignore function? Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #32
Click on a poster's name at the top of a post, and several functions will petronius Dec 2011 #38
I'm not the one using the NRA playbook. ellisonz Dec 2011 #47
Can you cite this "playbook" you allude to? n/t PavePusher Dec 2011 #65
Sure. ellisonz Dec 2011 #67
Extended clips (magazines) are stupid and generally don't work very well. rl6214 Dec 2011 #103
not always gejohnston Dec 2011 #14
Red Dawn fantasies not with-standing. ellisonz Dec 2011 #17
what is your obsession with Red Dawn? gejohnston Dec 2011 #49
Work in aviation one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #22
What is that a photo of? ellisonz Dec 2011 #26
If I'm not mistaken it is the gate to the concentration camp at Buchenwald Glassunion Dec 2011 #28
Some people had a plan to improve society, not unlike you one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #39
My family came out of those camps... ellisonz Dec 2011 #44
My office, 1968 one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #53
I'm done debating a one-eyed fat man... ellisonz Dec 2011 #55
We? one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #56
Big "we." Keep cuddling your guns, the war is over dude. ellisonz Dec 2011 #57
Too bad truth is not predicated on the amount of propaganda one can bring to an argument. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #75
People that have not invested their ass in the country look at it differently. era veteran Dec 2011 #76
Thank you for both your service *and* your principled protest. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #86
The same could be said about my generations Vietnam... ellisonz Dec 2011 #90
Not really We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #94
Thank you for chiming in. ellisonz Dec 2011 #89
I'll answer: We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #95
Why are you answering questions asked of someone else? ellisonz Dec 2011 #96
Because this is an open forum We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #97
Since... ellisonz Dec 2011 #98
If I'm reasonable I must be over the hill. LOL era veteran Dec 2011 #99
lol... ellisonz Dec 2011 #100
And how do you arrive at that conclusion? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #10
The best damn security money can buy. ellisonz Dec 2011 #13
Uh no - we dont We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #21
It could be easily done for new firearms... ellisonz Dec 2011 #27
No, it cannot We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #29
Then why do very little to reduce the number of victims in the first place... ellisonz Dec 2011 #43
What you fail to realize is that if all guns were somehow magically disappeared... LAGC Dec 2011 #50
Cite that, if you can.... n/t PavePusher Dec 2011 #41
I've had a secured gun stolen. What's my moral culpability? n/t PavePusher Dec 2011 #40
Less. ellisonz Dec 2011 #42
None. There, fixed it for you. PavePusher Dec 2011 #51
Purely speculation rl6214 Dec 2011 #102
Homicide does not require a firearm. Remmah2 Dec 2011 #72
Probably belonged to the Antioch Baptist Church era veteran Dec 2011 #78
Wow, maybe we can pass a law making it illegal to shoot someone in the head rl6214 Dec 2011 #101
What do New York, Chicago and DC have in common? DissedByBush Dec 2011 #104
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Cops: Robbery suspected i...»Reply #52