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Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: Cops: Robbery suspected in fatal South Shore shooting [View all]friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)62. "Civic responsibility" seems to be the new "moral harm"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x418269#418324
X_Digger (1000+ posts) Tue May-17-11 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sure it's the Robert Bork 'moral harm' principle in action...
As writer Dan Baum said in a recent Harper's article (August, 2010)...
.....My friends who are appalled by the thought of widespread concealed weapons aren't impressed by this argument, or by the research demonstrating no ill effects of the shall-issue revolution. "I don't care," said one. "I don't feel safe knowing that people are walking around with guns. What about my right to feel safe? Doesn't that count for anything?"
Robert Bork tried out that argument in 1971, in defense of prosecuting such victimless crimes as drug abuse, writing in the Indiana Law Journal that knowledge that an activity is taking place is a harm to those who find it profoundly immoral.
Its as bad an argument now as it was then. We may not like it that other people are doing things we revilesmoking pot, enjoying pornography, making gay love, or carrying a gunbut if we arent adversely affected by it, the Constitution and common decency argue for leaving it alone. My friend may feel less safe because people are wearing concealed guns, but the data suggest she isn't less safe....
X_Digger (1000+ posts) Tue May-17-11 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sure it's the Robert Bork 'moral harm' principle in action...
As writer Dan Baum said in a recent Harper's article (August, 2010)...
.....My friends who are appalled by the thought of widespread concealed weapons aren't impressed by this argument, or by the research demonstrating no ill effects of the shall-issue revolution. "I don't care," said one. "I don't feel safe knowing that people are walking around with guns. What about my right to feel safe? Doesn't that count for anything?"
Robert Bork tried out that argument in 1971, in defense of prosecuting such victimless crimes as drug abuse, writing in the Indiana Law Journal that knowledge that an activity is taking place is a harm to those who find it profoundly immoral.
Its as bad an argument now as it was then. We may not like it that other people are doing things we revilesmoking pot, enjoying pornography, making gay love, or carrying a gunbut if we arent adversely affected by it, the Constitution and common decency argue for leaving it alone. My friend may feel less safe because people are wearing concealed guns, but the data suggest she isn't less safe....
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Yep - and in a state which has even stricter gun control than you would like to see...
We_Have_A_Problem
Dec 2011
#1
You're the one making demonstrably false suppositions about the crime rate. n/t
ellisonz
Dec 2011
#9
I fail to see any demonstrably false suppositions or statements he has made about the crime rate
We_Have_A_Problem
Dec 2011
#33
Is it enough for you to have innocent victims suffering from your expansive sense of civil rights?
ellisonz
Dec 2011
#16
We restrict the rights of those who have actually done something wrong, yes
We_Have_A_Problem
Dec 2011
#23
Of course the problem is criminals - by definition they are the ones committing crimes.
hack89
Dec 2011
#24
You are looking at only one side of the equation, guns also stop and deter crime ...
spin
Dec 2011
#52
I haven't said once that I'm against concealed carry by trained and permitted citizens.
ellisonz
Dec 2011
#54
I fail to understand how limiting the number of firearms that I own will reduce crime...
spin
Dec 2011
#77
Actually, another thing that the pro-gunners are wrong about is that gun ownership rates...
DanTex
Dec 2011
#81
They also seem to ahve a serious inability to read the Constitution properly...
ellisonz
Dec 2011
#88
Too bad truth is not predicated on the amount of propaganda one can bring to an argument.
friendly_iconoclast
Dec 2011
#75
People that have not invested their ass in the country look at it differently.
era veteran
Dec 2011
#76