Gun Control & RKBA

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)

60. and other issue you are woefully misinformed about

Wed Dec 21, 2011, 12:27 AM

Dec 2011

was the ATF sending them there, without a detailed plan how to trace them or telling the Mexican authorities. Am I saying the ATF is ran by a bunch of idiots? Yes I am.
Few guns from gun shops are going to the cartels. They are increasingly from abroad, their southern border, and their own military. The 90 (or 75, depending on the week) you hear is simply the number the ATF traced to US sources (never defined, but speculation and propaganda took it from there.) But that is not the number of all guns.
The reality is that in 2008, Mexican forces captured 30,000 guns. 7,200 were given to the ATF to trace. 4,000 were successfully traced. 3,480 were traced to the US (being made or imported into the US)

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=390473&CategoryId=14091
http://insightcrime.org/insight-latest-news/item/1871-black-market-weapons-find-new-routes-to-mexico
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209-mexicos-gun-supply-and-90-percent-myth

Don't look at Jack's gun shop. Look at our own state department:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57337289/legal-u.s-gun-sales-to-mexico-arming-cartels

Think about it, why pay some straw purchaser a fee on top of the sale of the gun for a semi auto, when you can get full autos for less.

Stupid cartoons wrecks your arguement, showing you are more into regional bigotry than solutions.

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Ohio shooting of girl in Amish buggy a homicide [View all] ellisonz Dec 2011 OP

What is the point of your post? nt SteveW Dec 2011 #1

What's the point of your post? n/t ellisonz Dec 2011 #2

Ahem... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #32

Why is gun violence any different than any other type of violence? Remmah2 Dec 2011 #100

Actually, the illustration is how "persistant violence has become." SteveW Dec 2011 #106

the means does not matter gejohnston Dec 2011 #121

Why can't we rrneck Dec 2011 #3

I'm fixed. ellisonz Dec 2011 #4

Ah. rrneck Dec 2011 #5

What does the fourteenth century have to do with this? ellisonz Dec 2011 #6

So you got nothin'. rrneck Dec 2011 #7

I thought I was pretty damn clear. ellisonz Dec 2011 #8

Awwww. rrneck Dec 2011 #9

Or maybe I'll just make a pest of myself. ellisonz Dec 2011 #10

You're not up to pest yet. rrneck Dec 2011 #11

I have. You're just not reading. ellisonz Dec 2011 #25

We've read what you've said We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #29

You're going to pay for it with increased taxation and fines. ellisonz Dec 2011 #91

Oooh. Let's look. rrneck Dec 2011 #31

Don't you know by now... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #36

Yeah, I had some time to kill. rrneck Dec 2011 #38

It's really not that confusing. ellisonz Dec 2011 #69

lawl. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #78

rofl. ellisonz Dec 2011 #99

Ha! Betcha that cartoonist will get a royalty payment from the NRA. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #107

How so? ellisonz Dec 2011 #117

Kates and Kleck reports this in "The Great American gun Debate"... SteveW Dec 2011 #158

You're actually making a terrific argument against yourself... ellisonz Dec 2011 #160

Your hoping. You seem fascinated with the NRA. Are you a member? SteveW Dec 2011 #161

You didn't even read your own link. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #126

sigh ellisonz Dec 2011 #136

No it doesn't. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #140

You failed to answer any questions rrneck Dec 2011 #97

You get a cartoon for polemic. ellisonz Dec 2011 #98

Well, if that's the best you can do... rrneck Dec 2011 #102

Once upon a time AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #130

....more royalty payments from NRA. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #108

So let's look at your list rl6214 Dec 2011 #88

... ellisonz Dec 2011 #89

Well rl6214 Dec 2011 #93

Do I need to state the obvious... ellisonz Dec 2011 #96

AAAAAAAAahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha rl6214 Dec 2011 #124

As long as we do nothing, we will continue to have... ellisonz Dec 2011 #125

Actually, the murder rate has continued to decline as we have LOOSENED gun laws that don't overlap AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #134

Oh I have... ellisonz Dec 2011 #138

Oh, we agree more than you think. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #142

You're optimistic. ellisonz Dec 2011 #144

'Assure me' how? AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #145

Sure. ellisonz Dec 2011 #147

Nice attempt at sleight of hand. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #150

"Please tell me why someone needs a half-dozen semi-automatic handguns." AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #131

Sounds like you're really concerned about your self-protection... ellisonz Dec 2011 #139

Of course I keep them secured. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #141

Good. Y ellisonz Dec 2011 #146

New guns include trigger locks. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #149

Doesn't regulate the large secondary market. ellisonz Dec 2011 #152

Based on what? AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #153

Based on... ellisonz Dec 2011 #156

"Or maybe I'll just make a pest of myself" rl6214 Dec 2011 #87

I'll be here all week long. ellisonz Dec 2011 #90

Knock yourself out rl6214 Dec 2011 #94

He only owned two guns, and used his own, so not sure what a couple of your earlier bullet points ar AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #132

But ... we, the "weak willed", don't want your version of "Common Sense Gun Control" DonP Dec 2011 #21

Superb post, thank you... MicaelS Dec 2011 #37

Aren't you just a dandy... ellisonz Dec 2011 #44

Well, you know what they say about people that "assume"? DonP Dec 2011 #67

I didn't until I got told, well I'm a gun owner and I know more than you possibly ever could... ellisonz Dec 2011 #68

...make a cartoon; get NRA royalties! nt SteveW Dec 2011 #109

Obviously they're working... ellisonz Dec 2011 #116

Have you ever stopped to wonder... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #118

You have a problem... ellisonz Dec 2011 #119

For whom? The gun-controllers? With NRA paying royalties? nt SteveW Dec 2011 #159

So you're just going to ignore his point about the President, both houses, and the supreme court? AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #80

What point? ellisonz Dec 2011 #83

"LA-LA-LA-LA, I can't hear you and you can't make me!" DonP Dec 2011 #103

The truth is a powerful. ellisonz Dec 2011 #115

Oh, Margulies just has to have received some NRA $. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #110

"....something I'm not claiming". Then how do you explain this post?: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #114

I'm sure you're mistaken. He never said that, he just told us that. DonP Dec 2011 #120

I understand the feeling, but consider what's happened to gun control in those same 10 years friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #122

Hahahah exactly. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #128

even Laurence Tribe disagrees with you gejohnston Dec 2011 #135

1. Laurence Tribe is one man. ellisonz Dec 2011 #137

you don't get it gejohnston Dec 2011 #154

One day... ellisonz Dec 2011 #155

one thing gejohnston Dec 2011 #157

Excellent questions, except maybe the birds singing. Who is she? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #16

Oops, my bad. rrneck Dec 2011 #42

You mean like Mexico? DissedByBush Dec 2011 #12

Our guns get smuggled to Meixco. ellisonz Dec 2011 #15

Some do, yes. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #17

if your more legal guns=more crime gejohnston Dec 2011 #22

Of course the economics of the place matter. DanTex Dec 2011 #35

that is the worst analogy you have ever came up with gejohnston Dec 2011 #49

Well, the ATF allows guns to be smuggled to Mexico DissedByBush Dec 2011 #24

Ohio sheriff: Accident led to Amish girl's death burf Dec 2011 #13

Tragic accident... ellisonz Dec 2011 #14

Yes it is a tragic accident. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #18

First step in cleaning a firearm: Clear it DissedByBush Dec 2011 #39

I agree 100% We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #41

Yes, tragic. Straw Man Dec 2011 #20

Less guns, more education. ellisonz Dec 2011 #23

More education certainly. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #26

So you wouldn't prosecute... Straw Man Dec 2011 #27

I'd prosecute for negligent homicide. ellisonz Dec 2011 #45

Ever heard of the Pittman Robertson Act? burf Dec 2011 #46

So we'll increase it... ellisonz Dec 2011 #47

Go for it! burf Dec 2011 #48

Why don't you ask them how they'd feel about that? ellisonz Dec 2011 #52

I figured you have an inside line with them. burf Dec 2011 #53

"As far as the orphans and widows go, perhaps marksmanship skill would be advantageous to them." ellisonz Dec 2011 #54

So you would like the women and children to burf Dec 2011 #57

Yes. But why should non-gun owners be paying the same for all this... ellisonz Dec 2011 #58

You didn't answer my questions. burf Dec 2011 #59

I have life insurance. Don't you? AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #81

You do realize... ellisonz Dec 2011 #84

Do you drive a car? AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #127

True. ellisonz Dec 2011 #129

Integrity? No. Intelligence? Yes. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #133

I think the issues are a lot more complex than you want to admit. ellisonz Dec 2011 #143

Hahah pitifully few crimes. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #148

I'm not really defending them. ellisonz Dec 2011 #151

why should I pay gejohnston Dec 2011 #50

why should I pay for the destruction of your choice? ellisonz Dec 2011 #51

what choice is that? gejohnston Dec 2011 #55

Hundreds of thousands of guns are stolen every year... ellisonz Dec 2011 #56

and other issue you are woefully misinformed about gejohnston Dec 2011 #60

You're missing the point. ellisonz Dec 2011 #62

umm read the articles gejohnston Dec 2011 #64

... ellisonz Dec 2011 #66

smuggled through the southern border gejohnston Dec 2011 #70

Ok. ellisonz Dec 2011 #72

How about directly to the gangs gejohnston Dec 2011 #82

No, keep up the cartoons. Straw Man Dec 2011 #76

Do you support the government allowing guns to be sent to Mexican burf Dec 2011 #61

Pray tell, where are the cartels getting machine guns, grenades, RPG's and mines? PavePusher Dec 2011 #63

Fine. Go ahead and levy a tax. Straw Man Dec 2011 #73

So now you're admitting there's culpability? ellisonz Dec 2011 #75

Only if criminal negligence has been established by a court. Straw Man Dec 2011 #77

We must stop those assault muzzleloaders! DissedByBush Dec 2011 #34

Negligent Homicide. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #33

All that visual carbuncle lancing ...over an accident? Jeeez. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #111

Still a homicide. Accidental maybe, but still homicide. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #19

I don't see a civil suit gejohnston Dec 2011 #28

They can forgive all they want DissedByBush Dec 2011 #40

You're probably right, but it doesn't negate the personal liability. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #43

This was an accident, not homicide. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #30

I have a clearing barrel at my front door. PavePusher Dec 2011 #65

did you gejohnston Dec 2011 #71

No, left it plain white plastic, but labeled the lid "CLEARING BARREL" with a Sharpie. PavePusher Dec 2011 #123

So the solution to irresponsible owners is more guns? ellisonz Dec 2011 #74

What on earth are you talking about? Straw Man Dec 2011 #79

No. I'm saying ood for you. ellisonz Dec 2011 #85

Speaking of straying off-topic... n/t PavePusher Dec 2011 #104

Amish country, possibly a hunting accident? rl6214 Dec 2011 #86

See Post #13 above. ellisonz Dec 2011 #92

Yes I see now it was ruled an accident rl6214 Dec 2011 #95

The Amish often have firearms for hunting. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #113

Why can't we have homicide rates as low as other Western countries? Remmah2 Dec 2011 #101

We can - just rationalize our drug laws hack89 Dec 2011 #105

Most excellent source. Thanks. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #112