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Gun Control & RKBA

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ellisonz

(27,776 posts)
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 01:07 AM Mar 2012

Where's the Trayvon Martin petition about gun control? [View all]

Protesters back a petition to prosecute George Zimmerman for fatally shooting unarmed Trayvon Martin. We need to ask whether 'Stand Your Ground' measures make people trigger-happy. And we need to think about the most common victims of lax gun laws: African Americans.

Christian Science Monitor By Jonathan Zimmerman | Christian Science Monitor – Fri, Mar 23, 2012
Jonathan Zimmerman teaches history and education at New York University. He is the author of "Small Wonder: The Little Red Schoolhouse in History and Memory."


Excerpt:

Nationwide, blacks are far more likely to die from firearms than are white people. Not surprisingly, then, African Americans also favor gun control more than
whites do. In a 2010 poll by the Pew Research Center, asking people whether it was more important to “protect gun rights” or “control gun ownership,” 53 percent of whites chose gun rights and 39 percent selected gun control.

Among African Americans, by contrast, just 27 percent deemed gun ownership rights more important; meanwhile, a whopping 64 percent called gun control the more important goal.

These numbers don’t sit well with the gun lobby, which has often suggested that strict gun control actually discriminates against racial minorities. Its evidence? Some of our earliest restrictions on guns barred African Americans from owning them.

That’s true. And it’s also irrelevant. Especially in the years right after the Civil War, racist whites strove to keep guns out of black hands. But it hardly follows that today’s gun-control laws are racist, or that African Americans would be safer if they armed themselves.

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More: http://news.yahoo.com/wheres-trayvon-martin-petition-gun-control-164202878.html


Thank you Jonathan Zimmerman for pointing out the glaring social truth in this debacle.
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Petitions are not good evidence in prosecutions pipoman Mar 2012 #1
Have you read this from the former Chief of Miami PD: ellisonz Mar 2012 #3
Law enforcement officers... Clames Mar 2012 #4
Ridiculous. n/t ellisonz Mar 2012 #5
Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #6
And your argument is absurd. ellisonz Mar 2012 #8
they certainly have the right to comment gejohnston Mar 2012 #10
Your amigo there stated... ellisonz Mar 2012 #11
what are you asking me for? gejohnston Mar 2012 #13
"the burden of proof is on the crime victim" ellisonz Mar 2012 #14
then you agree gejohnston Mar 2012 #15
Nothing could be more just and reasonable than the duty to retreat... ellisonz Mar 2012 #16
the dead? gejohnston Mar 2012 #18
"The crime victim is the one being attacked (if it is a true self defense case)." ellisonz Mar 2012 #19
did I say preemptive immunity in criminal court? gejohnston Mar 2012 #20
That's what it amounts to often... ellisonz Mar 2012 #22
just kicking in the door gejohnston Mar 2012 #23
Not all castle doctrines are created equal gejohnston Mar 2012 #33
Someone's life is certainly worth property in certain circumstances... MicaelS Mar 2012 #70
Most cases sarisataka Mar 2012 #21
- it should not be incumbent on Oneka Mar 2012 #31
They ought to call these White Wash Laws... ellisonz Mar 2012 #36
There should be absolutely No Duty to Retreat MicaelS Mar 2012 #69
LMGTFY Callisto32 Mar 2012 #26
I could back that sarisataka Mar 2012 #17
Really? REALLY? beevul Mar 2012 #24
The reply, should you receive one... Marengo Mar 2012 #34
Whatever you say, dude. ellisonz Mar 2012 #38
I was right, essentially ignored as you didn't address the points raised. Marengo Mar 2012 #43
I've got better fish to fry. ellisonz Mar 2012 #44
Uh Huh, Sure you do... Marengo Mar 2012 #45
Okay, don't show any respect for other's experiences and opinions... ellisonz Mar 2012 #37
LOL! A reply substantive beyond my wildest imagination. Marengo Mar 2012 #42
Respect is earned, not assumed. beevul Mar 2012 #50
41 years in law enforcement... ellisonz Mar 2012 #51
Strawman. beevul Mar 2012 #54
"You didn't like stand your ground laws BEFORE this incident" ellisonz Mar 2012 #55
Why...? beevul Mar 2012 #56
Utter nonsense. ellisonz Mar 2012 #58
What I was responding to was. beevul Mar 2012 #76
Circular and nonsencical Oneka Mar 2012 #63
Why should he? You certainly don't. oneshooter Mar 2012 #52
That's because you aren't paying attention. n/t ellisonz Mar 2012 #53
No, it's because you have failed to do so. oneshooter Mar 2012 #57
OH REALLY??????????? AH1Apache Mar 2012 #47
Castle doctrine and SYG are two different things gejohnston Mar 2012 #7
They both operate under the same basic principles in legal application. n/t ellisonz Mar 2012 #9
but in different places gejohnston Mar 2012 #12
Please provide a review of the cases and tell us... PavePusher Mar 2012 #32
How about you go spend a Sunday afternoon digging that up? ellisonz Mar 2012 #35
Why don't you? Otherwise, it's an argument from authority. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2012 #46
It's good have authority in your arguments... ellisonz Mar 2012 #49
ellisonz, going for the logical fallacy hat-trick! lol (nt) eqfan592 Apr 2012 #92
good question gejohnston Mar 2012 #2
Because a tiny minority abuse gun rights is no reason to take our rights away. GreenStormCloud Mar 2012 #25
Hopefully more AA's will take advantage of CC permits. ileus Mar 2012 #27
yes. Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2012 #28
They are also more likely to kill with them. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #29
won't but the antis want to... ileus Mar 2012 #30
And we're supposed to believe you don't want a liscense to commit murder? ellisonz Mar 2012 #39
What does this have to do with my post? Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #59
"We don't punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty." ellisonz Mar 2012 #60
So in your world ... Straw Man Mar 2012 #61
"it shouldn't matter how you got killed. Shot in the front, shot in the back, or hung from a tree." ellisonz Mar 2012 #62
And again, we aren't talking about the death of innocent people here. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #65
"or hung from a tree" ellisonz Mar 2012 #66
For a violent crime. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #72
So Zimmerman and friends should have lynched Trayvon Martin if he injured him in self-defense? n/t ellisonz Mar 2012 #73
Nope. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #74
"Obviously my hanging after-the-fact statement is absurd." ellisonz Mar 2012 #75
You're welcome. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #77
It's getting worse. Straw Man Apr 2012 #87
Spoken... ellisonz Apr 2012 #88
Please explain ... Straw Man Apr 2012 #89
Trayvon Martin is a violent criminal? ellisonz Apr 2012 #94
No. Straw Man Apr 2012 #95
So what were you saying... ellisonz Apr 2012 #96
Simply this. Straw Man Apr 2012 #97
"It looks very much as though George Zimmerman is lying and initiated the attack." ellisonz Apr 2012 #98
You still can't see the difference, can you. Straw Man Apr 2012 #99
It appears that that did not happen. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #102
Presumably you are both talking about the violent criminals *I* was talking about. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #101
Except I clearly said I don't have much sympathy for DEAD ARMED ROBBERS. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #64
"Does this mean that African Americans can't be trusted with firearms for self-defense?" Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #83
Welcome to Starboard Tack's nanny state. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #84
Where did I say I was anti-gun? Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #86
Right here: "Fact is, nobody can be "trusted" with firearms for self defense." Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #90
What utter nonsense. Are you devoid of comprehension skills? Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #91
By your logic, then, you must trust noone. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #100
Nice to see and open acknowledgement of the racist roots of Gun Control ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #40
And a complete dismissal of its relevance... ellisonz Mar 2012 #41
Some of us are not dismissed so easily ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #48
"Where's the petition?" - Same place all the other gun control petitions are. DonP Mar 2012 #67
Whereas those of us who believe in RKBA AH1Apache Mar 2012 #68
Next time you run across a hardcore anti-gun person shadowrider Mar 2012 #71
I have asked that a few times DonP Mar 2012 #78
But it hardly follows... that African Americans would be safer if they armed themselves. AtheistCrusader Mar 2012 #79
It would be interesting to compare... sarisataka Mar 2012 #80
I agree, in fact, I believe it has been done. AtheistCrusader Mar 2012 #81
Interesting read sarisataka Mar 2012 #82
Complex, multi-level solutions... eqfan592 Apr 2012 #93
What we individually need to ask is... discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2012 #85
We need to ask whether 'Stand Your Ground' measures make people trigger-happy. discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #103
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