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gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
154. you don't get it
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 03:48 AM
Dec 2011

the collective rights theory is losing it's steam and Tribe was one of the big believers in it. The SCOTUS never gave the collective theory much thought. The lower courts decided individual. The lower court before the 1939 Miller case, did rule the NFA violated 2A. The SCOTUS decided nothing either way. Miller was dead and his council was not there to give arguments or file a brief.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/us/06firearms.html?pagewanted=all

It didn't. Homicide or murder? That was a homicide, but it was not murder.
It was a small town in the late 1960s.

Gun control doesn't have a fucking thing to do with the other issues. They don't care about guns anymore than they care about abortion. The Democratic party don't give a shit until 1965. JFK was a member of the NRA. The governor of Montana is as progressive as it gets, working on single payer for the state etc. He is also pro gun. Rudy Giuliani agrees with you, but he wants to make the Sullivan Law nation wide, until he decided to run for national office, because that does not play outside of New York. It is not as simply right/left as you think.

It has nothing to do with being afraid of the Republicans. The vast majority of people, that huge middle that makes elections, are with us on everything else. This they are not. That is the reality.
This is the wedge issue the Dems screw themselves royally. It is not really about guns per se. It is connected to much larger issue that has been screwing the party since about that same time. There is a perception that liberals in general don't give a rat's ass about rural, working class people. Or what Keith O. and Bill Mauer disdainfully calls the unwashed. You can't win when out of the one side of your mouth you say "we know what's in your best interest and now we care abut unions" then out of the other side of their mouths say "look at those redneck trailer trash gun toting pieces of shit." That is why the NRA made your cartoonists rich, it is a regular part of NRA propaganda. There is a reason why I call some progressive sites free republic left, because there is no fucking difference. The only difference is who the other is. Read the comments sections in Crooks and Liars whenever the subject comes up. Would you trust them? So mister blue collar union member trailer trash votes Republican, because at least the Kochs have been smart enough to keep their disdain to themselves. Same with evangelicals. Tucker Carlson admitted the GOP money bags looks down on evangelicals, but fill them full of shit about abortion to vote for them. That was over ten years ago and down the memory hole outside of an obscure youtube video. We are open about our bigotry. We talk about embracing diversity, but not that diversity and they are smart enough to see the hypocrisy in it.
Afraid of Republicans? No.
It is a philosophical thing, it is also a cultural thing. I am proud of being a rural hick that grew up in Wyoming, including the gun culture. I am proud of being left wing libertarian that votes Democratic and agrees with most things Democratic. I am also proud to work to maintain all of the ideals of the enlightenment, including gun rights. Two countries were born of the enlightenment, both countries have the right to own guns, and both have gun cultures. Tell that to the next teabagger that bitches about France. No, I think the French gun laws are more complicated than they have to be. I like the Czech model better.

Why is theocracy bad everywhere but Tibet? I get the whole thing with the Chinese occupation and annexation, but is restoring a theocracy really freeing them?

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

What is the point of your post? nt SteveW Dec 2011 #1
What's the point of your post? n/t ellisonz Dec 2011 #2
Ahem... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #32
Why is gun violence any different than any other type of violence? Remmah2 Dec 2011 #100
Actually, the illustration is how "persistant violence has become." SteveW Dec 2011 #106
the means does not matter gejohnston Dec 2011 #121
Why can't we rrneck Dec 2011 #3
I'm fixed. ellisonz Dec 2011 #4
Ah. rrneck Dec 2011 #5
What does the fourteenth century have to do with this? ellisonz Dec 2011 #6
So you got nothin'. rrneck Dec 2011 #7
I thought I was pretty damn clear. ellisonz Dec 2011 #8
Awwww. rrneck Dec 2011 #9
Or maybe I'll just make a pest of myself. ellisonz Dec 2011 #10
You're not up to pest yet. rrneck Dec 2011 #11
I have. You're just not reading. ellisonz Dec 2011 #25
We've read what you've said We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #29
You're going to pay for it with increased taxation and fines. ellisonz Dec 2011 #91
Oooh. Let's look. rrneck Dec 2011 #31
Don't you know by now... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #36
Yeah, I had some time to kill. rrneck Dec 2011 #38
It's really not that confusing. ellisonz Dec 2011 #69
lawl. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #78
rofl. ellisonz Dec 2011 #99
Ha! Betcha that cartoonist will get a royalty payment from the NRA. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #107
How so? ellisonz Dec 2011 #117
Kates and Kleck reports this in "The Great American gun Debate"... SteveW Dec 2011 #158
You're actually making a terrific argument against yourself... ellisonz Dec 2011 #160
Your hoping. You seem fascinated with the NRA. Are you a member? SteveW Dec 2011 #161
You didn't even read your own link. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #126
sigh ellisonz Dec 2011 #136
No it doesn't. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #140
You failed to answer any questions rrneck Dec 2011 #97
You get a cartoon for polemic. ellisonz Dec 2011 #98
Well, if that's the best you can do... rrneck Dec 2011 #102
Once upon a time AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #130
....more royalty payments from NRA. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #108
So let's look at your list rl6214 Dec 2011 #88
... ellisonz Dec 2011 #89
Well rl6214 Dec 2011 #93
Do I need to state the obvious... ellisonz Dec 2011 #96
AAAAAAAAahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha rl6214 Dec 2011 #124
As long as we do nothing, we will continue to have... ellisonz Dec 2011 #125
Actually, the murder rate has continued to decline as we have LOOSENED gun laws that don't overlap AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #134
Oh I have... ellisonz Dec 2011 #138
Oh, we agree more than you think. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #142
You're optimistic. ellisonz Dec 2011 #144
'Assure me' how? AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #145
Sure. ellisonz Dec 2011 #147
Nice attempt at sleight of hand. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #150
"Please tell me why someone needs a half-dozen semi-automatic handguns." AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #131
Sounds like you're really concerned about your self-protection... ellisonz Dec 2011 #139
Of course I keep them secured. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #141
Good. Y ellisonz Dec 2011 #146
New guns include trigger locks. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #149
Doesn't regulate the large secondary market. ellisonz Dec 2011 #152
Based on what? AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #153
Based on... ellisonz Dec 2011 #156
"Or maybe I'll just make a pest of myself" rl6214 Dec 2011 #87
I'll be here all week long. ellisonz Dec 2011 #90
Knock yourself out rl6214 Dec 2011 #94
He only owned two guns, and used his own, so not sure what a couple of your earlier bullet points ar AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #132
But ... we, the "weak willed", don't want your version of "Common Sense Gun Control" DonP Dec 2011 #21
Superb post, thank you... MicaelS Dec 2011 #37
Aren't you just a dandy... ellisonz Dec 2011 #44
Well, you know what they say about people that "assume"? DonP Dec 2011 #67
I didn't until I got told, well I'm a gun owner and I know more than you possibly ever could... ellisonz Dec 2011 #68
...make a cartoon; get NRA royalties! nt SteveW Dec 2011 #109
Obviously they're working... ellisonz Dec 2011 #116
Have you ever stopped to wonder... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #118
You have a problem... ellisonz Dec 2011 #119
For whom? The gun-controllers? With NRA paying royalties? nt SteveW Dec 2011 #159
So you're just going to ignore his point about the President, both houses, and the supreme court? AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #80
What point? ellisonz Dec 2011 #83
"LA-LA-LA-LA, I can't hear you and you can't make me!" DonP Dec 2011 #103
The truth is a powerful. ellisonz Dec 2011 #115
Oh, Margulies just has to have received some NRA $. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #110
"....something I'm not claiming". Then how do you explain this post?: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #114
I'm sure you're mistaken. He never said that, he just told us that. DonP Dec 2011 #120
I understand the feeling, but consider what's happened to gun control in those same 10 years friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #122
Hahahah exactly. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #128
even Laurence Tribe disagrees with you gejohnston Dec 2011 #135
1. Laurence Tribe is one man. ellisonz Dec 2011 #137
you don't get it gejohnston Dec 2011 #154
One day... ellisonz Dec 2011 #155
one thing gejohnston Dec 2011 #157
Excellent questions, except maybe the birds singing. Who is she? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #16
Oops, my bad. rrneck Dec 2011 #42
You mean like Mexico? DissedByBush Dec 2011 #12
Our guns get smuggled to Meixco. ellisonz Dec 2011 #15
Some do, yes. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #17
if your more legal guns=more crime gejohnston Dec 2011 #22
Of course the economics of the place matter. DanTex Dec 2011 #35
that is the worst analogy you have ever came up with gejohnston Dec 2011 #49
Well, the ATF allows guns to be smuggled to Mexico DissedByBush Dec 2011 #24
Ohio sheriff: Accident led to Amish girl's death burf Dec 2011 #13
Tragic accident... ellisonz Dec 2011 #14
Yes it is a tragic accident. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #18
First step in cleaning a firearm: Clear it DissedByBush Dec 2011 #39
I agree 100% We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #41
Yes, tragic. Straw Man Dec 2011 #20
Less guns, more education. ellisonz Dec 2011 #23
More education certainly. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #26
So you wouldn't prosecute... Straw Man Dec 2011 #27
I'd prosecute for negligent homicide. ellisonz Dec 2011 #45
Ever heard of the Pittman Robertson Act? burf Dec 2011 #46
So we'll increase it... ellisonz Dec 2011 #47
Go for it! burf Dec 2011 #48
Why don't you ask them how they'd feel about that? ellisonz Dec 2011 #52
I figured you have an inside line with them. burf Dec 2011 #53
"As far as the orphans and widows go, perhaps marksmanship skill would be advantageous to them." ellisonz Dec 2011 #54
So you would like the women and children to burf Dec 2011 #57
Yes. But why should non-gun owners be paying the same for all this... ellisonz Dec 2011 #58
You didn't answer my questions. burf Dec 2011 #59
I have life insurance. Don't you? AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #81
You do realize... ellisonz Dec 2011 #84
Do you drive a car? AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #127
True. ellisonz Dec 2011 #129
Integrity? No. Intelligence? Yes. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #133
I think the issues are a lot more complex than you want to admit. ellisonz Dec 2011 #143
Hahah pitifully few crimes. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #148
I'm not really defending them. ellisonz Dec 2011 #151
why should I pay gejohnston Dec 2011 #50
why should I pay for the destruction of your choice? ellisonz Dec 2011 #51
what choice is that? gejohnston Dec 2011 #55
Hundreds of thousands of guns are stolen every year... ellisonz Dec 2011 #56
and other issue you are woefully misinformed about gejohnston Dec 2011 #60
You're missing the point. ellisonz Dec 2011 #62
umm read the articles gejohnston Dec 2011 #64
... ellisonz Dec 2011 #66
smuggled through the southern border gejohnston Dec 2011 #70
Ok. ellisonz Dec 2011 #72
How about directly to the gangs gejohnston Dec 2011 #82
No, keep up the cartoons. Straw Man Dec 2011 #76
Do you support the government allowing guns to be sent to Mexican burf Dec 2011 #61
Pray tell, where are the cartels getting machine guns, grenades, RPG's and mines? PavePusher Dec 2011 #63
Fine. Go ahead and levy a tax. Straw Man Dec 2011 #73
So now you're admitting there's culpability? ellisonz Dec 2011 #75
Only if criminal negligence has been established by a court. Straw Man Dec 2011 #77
We must stop those assault muzzleloaders! DissedByBush Dec 2011 #34
Negligent Homicide. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #33
All that visual carbuncle lancing ...over an accident? Jeeez. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #111
Still a homicide. Accidental maybe, but still homicide. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #19
I don't see a civil suit gejohnston Dec 2011 #28
They can forgive all they want DissedByBush Dec 2011 #40
You're probably right, but it doesn't negate the personal liability. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #43
This was an accident, not homicide. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #30
I have a clearing barrel at my front door. PavePusher Dec 2011 #65
did you gejohnston Dec 2011 #71
No, left it plain white plastic, but labeled the lid "CLEARING BARREL" with a Sharpie. PavePusher Dec 2011 #123
So the solution to irresponsible owners is more guns? ellisonz Dec 2011 #74
What on earth are you talking about? Straw Man Dec 2011 #79
No. I'm saying ood for you. ellisonz Dec 2011 #85
Speaking of straying off-topic... n/t PavePusher Dec 2011 #104
Amish country, possibly a hunting accident? rl6214 Dec 2011 #86
See Post #13 above. ellisonz Dec 2011 #92
Yes I see now it was ruled an accident rl6214 Dec 2011 #95
The Amish often have firearms for hunting. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #113
Why can't we have homicide rates as low as other Western countries? Remmah2 Dec 2011 #101
We can - just rationalize our drug laws hack89 Dec 2011 #105
Most excellent source. Thanks. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #112
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