Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

Atypical Liberal

(5,412 posts)
37. If it didn't change the meaning why did you omit it?
Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:13 PM
Apr 2012

"For all practical and legal purposes, you need to face the reality that the preambulatory phrase of the second amendment does not exist."

This is not "telling (you) that the Courts just struck down an entire phrase of the United States Constitution wholesale?"

This is telling you that for practical and legal purposes, the preambulatory phrase of the second amendment doesn't exist.

Practically, because the militias spoken of don't exist anymore. There are no militias necessary to the security of free states anymore.

Legally, because the Supreme Court has unanimously ruled, and the President of the United States agrees, that you don't have to belong to a militia to exercise your individual right to keep and bear arms.

You'll note, by the way, that during the debate of the second amendment while it was being framed an attempt was made to include "for the common defense" after "bear arms" and that was struck down.

Now if it makes you feel better to say that this means that the SC and the President have struck down part of the Constitution, hey, knock yourself out.

But that's not my opinion.

My opinion is the SC and the President understand what the militias were meant to do and what role the people were to fulfill in those militias, and they understand that those militias are gone. And they said, "The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause." In other words, the people are intended to keep and bear arms for militia service, but not just militia service, and the right doesn't go away if there is no militia to serve in.

They also said, "The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved." Emphasis mine. In other words, the ideal being upheld was for the people, through the militias, to be able to resist oppression by the federal government. Even though the militias are gone, in order to uphold that ideal, the rest of the amendment must still apply.

Perhaps you'll find some free time this weekend to answer my question about why the founders perpetuated a decentralized military? Although the Supreme Court already gave you the answer in the paragraph immediately above.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Interesting, and I was with you until the first 'left turn' sarisataka Apr 2012 #1
... ellisonz Apr 2012 #7
That's all you've got? rl6214 Apr 2012 #19
It's a flawed article... ellisonz Apr 2012 #21
I don't see anything in thaty excerpt that he was incorrect about. PavePusher Apr 2012 #26
The entire premise that an external terror attack reflects on internal gun control laws! ellisonz Apr 2012 #29
How so? Why would a terrorist not focus on poorly defended targets? PavePusher Apr 2012 #34
So you're saying that if the hotel guests were better armed? ellisonz Apr 2012 #35
It wouldn't have hurt to have more guns... sarisataka Apr 2012 #41
Do you think the Mumbai attack would have had better, equal or worse results (from the perspective PavePusher Apr 2012 #49
A massive imbecile but... sarisataka Apr 2012 #42
Better? sarisataka Apr 2012 #27
Lawmakers are working - on guns rights. GreenStormCloud Apr 2012 #2
Interesting... mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #3
You're presuming all of those people agree with the "gun rights" agenda... ellisonz Apr 2012 #6
Such people may not agree on all the items in the "gun rights" agenda ... spin Apr 2012 #11
All the editing in the world... ellisonz Apr 2012 #18
Are members of a militia people? nt rrneck Apr 2012 #4
Yes. But you cannot deny that the construct is made... ellisonz Apr 2012 #5
The "construct" is the problem. rrneck Apr 2012 #8
You do realize that... ellisonz Apr 2012 #10
What do the terms rrneck Apr 2012 #14
Partially seperate Constitutional issues... ellisonz Apr 2012 #17
Oh now. rrneck Apr 2012 #20
Oy Vey. ellisonz Apr 2012 #30
My my rrneck Apr 2012 #32
It doesn't and you're changing the claim to fit your argument... ellisonz Apr 2012 #33
You never addressed any other rrneck Apr 2012 #36
One minor nit to pick. beevul Apr 2012 #43
True that. Important indeed. nt rrneck Apr 2012 #46
"All that matters is how we interpret the constitution in the context of today's reality." ellisonz Apr 2012 #44
You could at least draw your own cartoons. rrneck Apr 2012 #47
Why did the founders continue the decentralized militia system? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #15
They are doing what their constituents elected them to do - protect gun rights. GreenStormCloud Apr 2012 #9
And that is it in a nutshell. Being anti-gun is a death sentence in congress. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #13
Reasons why. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #12
"the preambulatory phrase of the second amendment does not exist." ellisonz Apr 2012 #16
Nope. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #22
You wrote that... ellisonz Apr 2012 #23
No, that is not what I wrote. You SELECTIVELY QUOTED what I wrote. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #24
Kids. Waddyagonnado? nt rrneck Apr 2012 #25
Didn't change the meaning one bit. ellisonz Apr 2012 #31
If it didn't change the meaning why did you omit it? Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #37
I appreciate your lengthy attempt at an argument... ellisonz Apr 2012 #38
No matter how many times you try and put words in my mouth, it won't work. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #39
Why do you hate freedom? ellisonz Apr 2012 #40
I never said he did. Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #48
We haven't done better because people keep trying to limit the 2A... ileus Apr 2012 #28
It might be because most further restrictions are either expensive, intrusive, or unworkable. krispos42 Apr 2012 #45
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Virginia Tech anniversary...»Reply #37