Gun Control & RKBA

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts) Fri Apr 20, 2012, 12:18 PM Apr 2012

As the pendulum swings, we see a glimpse of sanity on the horizon [View all]

Trayvon Martin shooting: a turning point in gun rights debate?

For years, gun laws had grown less restrictive. But some gun rights advocacy has been curtailed after the Trayvon Martin shooting, which has provided ammunition for gun control groups.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0419/Trayvon-Martin-shooting-a-turning-point-in-gun-rights-debate/%28page%29/2

Even ALEC is backing off

Last week, Michael Yaki, a member of the US Civil Rights Commission, said he would ask the federal agency to investigate the Stand Your Ground law, ostensibly to identify whether there is a racial dimension to how it's applied.

And on the legislative front, the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), a 40-year-old conservative advocacy group that supplies legislators with ready-written legislation, announced that, because of pressure from corporations that support its operations, it’s disbanding its Public Safety and Elections taskforce, which supplied states like Florida with its Stand Your Ground law.

244 replies

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As the pendulum swings, we see a glimpse of sanity on the horizon [View all] Starboard Tack Apr 2012 OP

While I wouldnt start counting chickens just yet rrneck Apr 2012 #1

Like it should. Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #2

It's not necessarily a bad law rrneck Apr 2012 #6

It's a bad law... ellisonz Apr 2012 #28

Of course it's atrocious. rrneck Apr 2012 #40

Explain to me why preceeding self-defense law was insufficient. nt/ ellisonz Apr 2012 #43

So you got nothin'. All righty. nt rrneck Apr 2012 #52

Neither do you... ellisonz Apr 2012 #53

The difference rrneck Apr 2012 #54

"I'm not feeding off the death of that boy for my own amusement." ellisonz Apr 2012 #61

Whst makes you think I've ever taken you seriously? rrneck Apr 2012 #73

These gun culture folks are often disgusting. They'd sacrifice a bunch of innocents Hoyt Apr 2012 #128

Yes, and several others would sarcifice a bunch of people to ban them. beevul Apr 2012 #130

You've never seen beyond your gun barrel. What's new? Hoyt Apr 2012 #131

I haven't actually even looked at a gun... beevul Apr 2012 #167

Show me how the statute even APPLIES to the Martin incident... Callisto32 Apr 2012 #222

Unfortunately. Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #39

Oh boy! I think you just burst a lot of balloons. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #70

You do know that gun sales to women is one of the fastest growing segments, right? DonP Apr 2012 #75

I do. Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #80

Also, Harley Davidson is having functions in their stores targeted (no pun... ) to women. Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #86

snork iverglas Apr 2012 #157

You are right, a miserable increase. Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #191

Apparently you haven't been paying attention...Women are among the fastest growing demographics S_B_Jackson Apr 2012 #76

Not a good way to find out you need to carry a gun. Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #90

No, it wasn't....attack took place IN her home. S_B_Jackson Apr 2012 #118

What does your wife's experience have to do with carrying in public? Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #162

actually, no indication at all that one needs to carry a gun iverglas Apr 2012 #158

+1. Well said, as usual. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #165

+1, nt Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #185

Dear Lost-in-FL, please read this shadowrider Apr 2012 #77

I do know people with firearms. Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #84

"Lady"? iverglas Apr 2012 #161

The poster to whom I was answering didn't take offense, so you have no reason shadowrider Apr 2012 #164

you really are a great big charmer, you are! iverglas Apr 2012 #168

Buh Bye shadowrider Apr 2012 #171

I wish iverglas Apr 2012 #173

Sliced and diced! Damn, that was better than hockey. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #178

I fail to see the logic gejohnston Apr 2012 #78

Qualified expert with M16 and was trained as a Medic to use a 9mm Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #89

I grew up with guns gejohnston Apr 2012 #96

"I basically find duty to retreat as fundamentally unjust in many ways." Simo 1939_1940 Apr 2012 #163

what sick, upside-down world? iverglas Apr 2012 #169

You're right. That would be, "sick" and "upside-down." HALO141 Apr 2012 #243

...unfortunately sarisataka Apr 2012 #81

My Loving Wife has had a CHL for 10 years now. oneshooter Apr 2012 #82

I don't have a problem with responsible/common sense gun ownership. Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #88

I'm with you all the way. Good posts. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #92

agree except that gejohnston Apr 2012 #98

Maybe that applies to everyone. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #100

so if Martin killed gejohnston Apr 2012 #114

I am against it in principle outside the home Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #146

And this is where that argument breaks down. Clames Apr 2012 #148

Self-defense can be a justification for homicide. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #155

another one who needs to go to law school iverglas Apr 2012 #196

Another one who needs to go to charm school. Clames Apr 2012 #199

Q.E.D. iverglas Apr 2012 #201

As long as you are admonishing people to cognoscere Apr 2012 #210

if I see any need for instructions from whoever you are iverglas Apr 2012 #212

Oh, Canada! Clames Apr 2012 #219

At least I understand it enough to know that it didn't even apply to Zimmy guy. Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #102

In truth, the fervor over SYG pipoman Apr 2012 #141

Thank you. Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #103

She also shoots HighPower, using a AR-15 I built for her. oneshooter Apr 2012 #94

Good point! bongbong Apr 2012 #110

My wife has twice used her concealed pistol to prevent attack. GreenStormCloud Apr 2012 #135

Seriously? Why would I like that? Dramatizing much? Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #154

Because you are against guns. GreenStormCloud Apr 2012 #186

Nevermind that I have nothing against responsible gun ownership as I stated a few... Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #188

So are you against her having a CHL and carrying a gun? GreenStormCloud Apr 2012 #193

No. Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #205

The nation is safe enough... krispos42 Apr 2012 #140

I know several women who carry. HALO141 Apr 2012 #244

Definitely no chickens yet and "adjustments" would be good. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #7

I think a tweak might be a good thing. Logical Apr 2012 #8

It would probably involve something like rrneck Apr 2012 #22

Great point! n-t Logical Apr 2012 #34

Excellent point! Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #93

No. nt rrneck Apr 2012 #97

With only 4% or so addicted to carrying guns in public, there is no reason sanity cannot Hoyt Apr 2012 #3

Interesting... mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #5

If you're not addicted, that's great news. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #10

You realize that 75% of the public supports concealed carry, yes? TheWraith Apr 2012 #9

72% Really? Where did you pull that number from? Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #13

Maybe if you actually read the poll? TheWraith Apr 2012 #26

That poll is very flawed bongbong Apr 2012 #33

I'll take AP/Ipsos' expertise over yours, thanks. TheWraith Apr 2012 #46

Go ahead bongbong Apr 2012 #49

Let me guess, AH1Apache Apr 2012 #57

Nope bongbong Apr 2012 #95

But I bet you would agree with one that came up with an opposite view AH1Apache Apr 2012 #104

Yes! bongbong Apr 2012 #107

Of course you would because it would fit your agenda AH1Apache Apr 2012 #108

Ooops bongbong Apr 2012 #109

Coming form you, that's rich AH1Apache Apr 2012 #112

Yes bongbong Apr 2012 #115

Big difference between supporting CC and supporting laws "allowing" CC permits. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #38

You're attempting to wriggle out of the fact that most Democrats support concealed carry. TheWraith Apr 2012 #47

Bullshit. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #62

One can't be progressive with a progressive stance on 2A freedom. ileus Apr 2012 #15

The 72% is fiction. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #17

Gibberish. n/t ellisonz Apr 2012 #29

I'm a Dem and I don't support concealed carry..nor does mr. shraby. shraby Apr 2012 #16

Well, that's your right. TheWraith Apr 2012 #27

I'm a dem and I support CC and OC and so does miss ileus ileus Apr 2012 #30

+100 Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #45

People with CC permits are extremely safe. GreenStormCloud Apr 2012 #230

I guess you didn't read the WHOLE article. Hoyt Apr 2012 #35

"we have to keep up the pressure" rl6214 Apr 2012 #20

NOW WE'RE ADDICTED HOYT? AH1Apache Apr 2012 #56

And what have you done to bring this to fruition? oneshooter Apr 2012 #85

Dude, he doesn't have the time to do that shadowrider Apr 2012 #138

I agree mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #4

Well hopefully the Zman case will end up in acquittal ileus Apr 2012 #11

You would hope Zimmerman walks. Self-defense in your mind is shooting people fleeing Hoyt Apr 2012 #36

really...having trouble quoting people again? ileus Apr 2012 #55

He made the same claim about me and when called on it AH1Apache Apr 2012 #60

He claimed a similar lie several weeks ago...SHOP I suppose. ileus Apr 2012 #64

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #65

And obviously AH1Apache Apr 2012 #59

Do you carry a gun prepared to shoot someone in a split second? Hoyt Apr 2012 #127

where's the link? ileus Apr 2012 #142

I'm not even going to answer your dumbass question again. AH1Apache Apr 2012 #145

Wonder how long a pro-RKBA Dem would last at DU who *repeatedly* Simo 1939_1940 Apr 2012 #228

Evening bump...what is that link again? ileus Apr 2012 #187

wow, for somebody who gets so verbose and uppity iverglas Apr 2012 #200

A better suggestion... Clames Apr 2012 #206

isn't it lovely? iverglas Apr 2012 #213

I've learned... Clames Apr 2012 #220

still no link ileus Apr 2012 #101

Link? Thanks... ileus Apr 2012 #216

hello check check...is this thing on? ileus Apr 2012 #221

Aflac or ALEC? Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #48

oh my iverglas Apr 2012 #197

So far this year over 20 NRA supported laws have been passed and signed. GreenStormCloud Apr 2012 #12

For safety and Americas sake lets hope you're right. ileus Apr 2012 #14

For who's safety? And who's America? Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #19

As long as my gun ownership does not threaten your safety hack89 Apr 2012 #24

rude toter... ileus Apr 2012 #31

It threatens everyone's safety, directly or indirectly. Hoyt Apr 2012 #37

So does me owning a car or buying alcohol on a frequent basis hack89 Apr 2012 #42

More logical fallacies bongbong Apr 2012 #111

It is not for alcohol hack89 Apr 2012 #123

Really? bongbong Apr 2012 #125

I have plenty of evidence that murders and other gun violence is at historic lows hack89 Apr 2012 #136

C'mon man, get with the program shadowrider Apr 2012 #139

You have stats. They are not evidence of anything. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #180

So you believe that more guns will produce more violence? hack89 Apr 2012 #181

Ask Trayvon Martin that question. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #183

That is an evasion - not an answer hack89 Apr 2012 #184

not mine...directly or indirectly ileus Apr 2012 #50

How Hoyt. AH1Apache Apr 2012 #63

you're a rude baser gunner toter you don't deserve a response. ileus Apr 2012 #66

Why would your gun ownership threaten my safety? Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #58

I would never carry on your private property without permission hack89 Apr 2012 #68

I'll be exercising my 1A rights to alert all in the vicinity. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #72

warning rude toter!!!! ileus Apr 2012 #74

No, I would alert LE that there was an armed individual and let them sort it out. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #99

OMFG AH1Apache Apr 2012 #105

Hopefully I wouldn't know and you would not be embarassed Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #149

So to be clear sarisataka Apr 2012 #152

Exactly! Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #156

A consistent standard sarisataka Apr 2012 #166

I'm striving for a consistent standard. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #175

If you see someone open carrying in Tampa gejohnston Apr 2012 #172

I haven't lived in Tampa since 1980 Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #177

no it was 1893 gejohnston Apr 2012 #179

I got a chuckle out of that. mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #129

And that is fine. I would expect that. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #150

No so mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #189

That's wonderful. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #192

I suppose he'd run up grab and throw them to the ground ileus Apr 2012 #143

Just as someone can do the same to you. I am sure you would be understanding about it. oneshooter Apr 2012 #144

Absolutely they could, but they would be wrong. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #151

Sure. No problem. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #182

How often have you actually done this? You say below that you've spotted CCWers in public; petronius Apr 2012 #176

Why would I be open to legal jeopardy? Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #195

I don't think it is arrogance gejohnston Apr 2012 #198

Good point. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #203

not a modern handgun gejohnston Apr 2012 #204

I was meaning in terms of empowerment, not value. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #208

I always though empowerment was a good thing gejohnston Apr 2012 #209

I'm using it in the literal sense, not it's recent psycho-socio-political incarnation Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #214

Please reread your posts 58, 72, and 99 petronius Apr 2012 #202

Sorry if I confused you. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #207

You didn't confuse me, you said two different and mutually exclusive things petronius Apr 2012 #211

I think I was pretty clear Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #215

Why thank you ST. I thought you had me pegged as a aggressive gun packer. oneshooter Apr 2012 #217

I would love to take you up on that. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #218

You mean losers shouldn't carry guns? nt Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #190

An editorial does not = any increase in gun control rl6214 Apr 2012 #18

"Until you people get organized" Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #21

More feigned ignorance rl6214 Apr 2012 #23

More dodging the question Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #41

"you people" = gun grabbers. nt hack89 Apr 2012 #25

Really? I don't see any gun grabbers here. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #44

Yes - I do consider you a gun grabber hack89 Apr 2012 #51

Well you are wrong. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #67

Until you can prove a harm to society hack89 Apr 2012 #69

Earth to Hack! 11,000 gun deaths is a harm to society. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #71

Which represents a 50 percent decrease since 1990 hack89 Apr 2012 #79

I don't know where you got the 50% decrease since 1990 from Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #83

your graph is outdated gejohnston Apr 2012 #87

I don't think so Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #91

Your chart misses the 6 more years of steady decline since 2004 hack89 Apr 2012 #106

Yawn bongbong Apr 2012 #113

The only thing that he/she is saying is that gun ownership is up while violent crime is down AH1Apache Apr 2012 #116

Nope bongbong Apr 2012 #117

but you are guessing gejohnston Apr 2012 #119

Sure bongbong Apr 2012 #120

he was making a statement of fact gejohnston Apr 2012 #122

Might and may and blah blah blah. Straw Man Apr 2012 #132

There is no correlation between gun ownership and murder rates hack89 Apr 2012 #121

Nope, as always bongbong Apr 2012 #126

Double nope. Straw Man Apr 2012 #133

Just your opinion - unsupported by logic or evidence. hack89 Apr 2012 #137

that graph is interesting Doctor_J Apr 2012 #223

I think the mid-nineties spike was probably more gang related Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #224

Interesting. Straw Man Apr 2012 #225

LOL, uh huh. beevul Apr 2012 #134

Wanna show me where I advocate grabbing/confiscating guns? Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #147

It doesn't matter. beevul Apr 2012 #170

Of course it matters Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #174

Indiscriminate. Straw Man Apr 2012 #226

I'm referring to virtually all. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #227

So why the qualifier "indiscriminate" ... Straw Man Apr 2012 #229

Because current laws don't discriminate enough Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #234

Really? Straw Man Apr 2012 #235

The "ludicrous" picture of scattering people is yours, not mine Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #236

So what do you picture? Straw Man Apr 2012 #237

What do I picture? Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #238

Different pictures. Straw Man Apr 2012 #239

You would have a heart attack in the church I attend. GreenStormCloud Apr 2012 #231

How come I would have a heart attack? Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #233

as an animist or some kind of undefined theiest, gejohnston Apr 2012 #240

Me too. LOL Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #241

The true gun grabbers are well organized ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2012 #32

Was that last sentence necessary? rrneck Apr 2012 #124

Hahahaha!!!!!!! Major Hogwash Apr 2012 #153

Every dead kid killed by gun nuts increases the numbers of gun grabbers jpak Apr 2012 #160

Backlash jpak Apr 2012 #159

Backlash? AH1Apache Apr 2012 #194

Frontlash! GreenStormCloud Apr 2012 #232

Sidelash! ileus Apr 2012 #242