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Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: As the pendulum swings, we see a glimpse of sanity on the horizon [View all]Straw Man
(6,958 posts)226. Indiscriminate.
I oppose the indiscriminate issue of CC permits and the laws allowing such nonsense.
Are you referring to "shall issue" policies? Because they are far from "indiscriminate." "Shall issue" simply means that the state must issue permits to those that meet the criteria it has established: no more unlimited and unexamined discretion by judges and law enforcement officials to deny permits to people whom they don't like for one reason or another. Wrong nationality, wrong politics, wrong religion, wrong gender, wrong sexuality, wrong race: take your pick. That's the sad history of "may issue." New York's history is a case in point:
CONCEALED PISTOLS
Editorial, New York Times, January, 27, 1905
Among the best British traditions perpetuated and cherished in America is that of using natures weapons in the act of self-defense. That it is sincerely cherished is shown in the recent introduction at Albany of a bill by Assemblyman Tompkins to amend the Penal Code of this State relative to the carrying of loaded firearms concealed about the person. The amending section reads as follows:
Sec. 411-A Any person other than a peace officer who shall in any public street, highway or place in any city in this State having a population of upward of 100,000 persons by the last State census have or carry concealed upon his person any loaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm, without thereto fore, in the manner now provided by law, having been authorized to carry the same, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
Such a measure would prove corrective and salutary in a city filled with immigrants and evil communications, floating from the shores of Italy and Austria-Hungary. New York police reports frequently testify to the fact that the Italian and other south Continental gentry here are acquainted with the pocket pistol, and while drunk or merrymaking will use it quite as handily as the stiletto, and with more deadly effect. It is hoped that this treacherous and distinctly outlandish mode of settling disputes may not spread to corrupt the native good manners of the community. The case of a Columbia student who flourished and fired a pistol at his persecutors instead of using his "bare fist", as his presumably British-American descent would prescribe, is fresh in the public memory. The act now proposed and championed by Mr. Tompkins will diminish the number of homicides.
Editorial, New York Times, January, 27, 1905
Among the best British traditions perpetuated and cherished in America is that of using natures weapons in the act of self-defense. That it is sincerely cherished is shown in the recent introduction at Albany of a bill by Assemblyman Tompkins to amend the Penal Code of this State relative to the carrying of loaded firearms concealed about the person. The amending section reads as follows:
Sec. 411-A Any person other than a peace officer who shall in any public street, highway or place in any city in this State having a population of upward of 100,000 persons by the last State census have or carry concealed upon his person any loaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm, without thereto fore, in the manner now provided by law, having been authorized to carry the same, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
Such a measure would prove corrective and salutary in a city filled with immigrants and evil communications, floating from the shores of Italy and Austria-Hungary. New York police reports frequently testify to the fact that the Italian and other south Continental gentry here are acquainted with the pocket pistol, and while drunk or merrymaking will use it quite as handily as the stiletto, and with more deadly effect. It is hoped that this treacherous and distinctly outlandish mode of settling disputes may not spread to corrupt the native good manners of the community. The case of a Columbia student who flourished and fired a pistol at his persecutors instead of using his "bare fist", as his presumably British-American descent would prescribe, is fresh in the public memory. The act now proposed and championed by Mr. Tompkins will diminish the number of homicides.
-- http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9C03E4D8163DE733A25754C2A9679C946497D6CF
This is in reference to the Tompkins Act. The subsequent Sullivan Act, in 1911, upgraded it to a felony. In the South, handgun permits were usually at the discretion of the county sheriff. I wonder who got permits and who didn't.
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As the pendulum swings, we see a glimpse of sanity on the horizon [View all]
Starboard Tack
Apr 2012
OP
These gun culture folks are often disgusting. They'd sacrifice a bunch of innocents
Hoyt
Apr 2012
#128
You do know that gun sales to women is one of the fastest growing segments, right?
DonP
Apr 2012
#75
Also, Harley Davidson is having functions in their stores targeted (no pun... ) to women.
Lost-in-FL
Apr 2012
#86
Apparently you haven't been paying attention...Women are among the fastest growing demographics
S_B_Jackson
Apr 2012
#76
The poster to whom I was answering didn't take offense, so you have no reason
shadowrider
Apr 2012
#164
"I basically find duty to retreat as fundamentally unjust in many ways."
Simo 1939_1940
Apr 2012
#163
At least I understand it enough to know that it didn't even apply to Zimmy guy.
Lost-in-FL
Apr 2012
#102
Nevermind that I have nothing against responsible gun ownership as I stated a few...
Lost-in-FL
Apr 2012
#188
With only 4% or so addicted to carrying guns in public, there is no reason sanity cannot
Hoyt
Apr 2012
#3
Big difference between supporting CC and supporting laws "allowing" CC permits.
Starboard Tack
Apr 2012
#38
You're attempting to wriggle out of the fact that most Democrats support concealed carry.
TheWraith
Apr 2012
#47
You would hope Zimmerman walks. Self-defense in your mind is shooting people fleeing
Hoyt
Apr 2012
#36
So far this year over 20 NRA supported laws have been passed and signed.
GreenStormCloud
Apr 2012
#12
I have plenty of evidence that murders and other gun violence is at historic lows
hack89
Apr 2012
#136
No, I would alert LE that there was an armed individual and let them sort it out.
Starboard Tack
Apr 2012
#99
Just as someone can do the same to you. I am sure you would be understanding about it.
oneshooter
Apr 2012
#144
How often have you actually done this? You say below that you've spotted CCWers in public;
petronius
Apr 2012
#176
I'm using it in the literal sense, not it's recent psycho-socio-political incarnation
Starboard Tack
Apr 2012
#214
The only thing that he/she is saying is that gun ownership is up while violent crime is down
AH1Apache
Apr 2012
#116