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ManiacJoe

(10,138 posts)
3. Excellent set of questions.
Sun May 6, 2012, 02:56 PM
May 2012

The details depend on your state's laws. However, in general...

I have never heard one person question someone defending themselves, the questions seem to come from when does the need to self defend start, at what point does defense become offense, when does stand your ground become pursue.

Self defense is you defending yourself from an attack. Once the attack stops, so must the defense. If the attacker tries to run away, and you give chase, then you have moved from defender to attacker in most jurisdictions. Unfortunately for the defender, the attacker can repeatedly start and stop the attack, which requires the defender to start and stop the defense.

Also, how much force are you allowed to use? Is deadly force allowed when, non-deadly for could work? Are warning shots allowed? Does the sides need to be evenly armed?

You are allowed to use the same level of force for defense as is being used for the attack. While non-lethal force has multiple sub-levels, lethal force does not. "Ability, opportunity, jeopardy" is the standard used for judging legal lethal self defense. Once you are legally allowed to use lethal force, you still need to make the tactical decision on what seems best for the given situation.

Warning shots are illegal in most jurisdictions. The reasoning is this: If you are not shooting to kill/stop, you are not in fear of your life; since you are not in fear of your life, lethal force is not allowed. (Guns are always lethal force.)

Both sides do not need to be evenly armed, but the "level" of force in the defense must not exceed the "level" used in the attack. Once the attacker has moved into the lethal "level" (normally but not always: clubs, knives, guns), any type of lethal defense is allowed.

And, just what can you defend. Defending yourself, family or another person seems to not be in question. But, does defending personal property justify using deadly force? If so, does that extend to your neighbor’s personal property?

Defending yourself and defending third parties is a given, but can be held to different standards, like in WA state.

While most states do not allow for lethal force in the defense of property, some states do. The misunderstanding that most folks have is that the property crime often quickly becomes a crime against the person when the Bad Guy turns a weapon on the Good Guy.

Is the problem in the way the laws are written or is it in how the laws are applied?

The problem is normally the application by the cops and prosecutors, along with the ignorance of the reporters and readers of the new articles.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

If you're a christian fundamentalist...you stand your ground.....if you're an... Namvet67 May 2012 #1
There should be NO Duty to Retreat MicaelS May 2012 #7
On the outside, back away if you can. Inside the home........ wandy May 2012 #8
100% agreement Namvet67 May 2012 #30
Excellent post, welcome to DU. safeinOhio May 2012 #9
I am a Christian... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #13
Rules? Where did you get your #26? AnotherMcIntosh May 2012 #26
thanks for the link discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #29
beautiful Namvet67 May 2012 #31
Thanks for the good word :) n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #35
Real life, of course, is never as binary as you claim. PavePusher May 2012 #17
I disagree with your comment that ... spin May 2012 #24
I agree...go STEELERS Namvet67 May 2012 #32
Its not about honor or wild west scenarios aikoaiko May 2012 #27
There is also a difference between tactical and required ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #46
You have very little understanding of Christianity. GreenStormCloud May 2012 #28
I repectfully disagree.....I have studied christianity ...forced on me for 12 years...on my own for Namvet67 May 2012 #33
There is another forum for theology. GreenStormCloud May 2012 #41
I'll let you be the doctor, but I'm an attorney... Callisto32 May 2012 #37
It's difficult to enforce any law rrneck May 2012 #2
I recall that... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #4
:D. nt rrneck May 2012 #11
Does the law adjust the mentality? SoutherDem May 2012 #5
Maybe. rrneck May 2012 #10
For me Oneka May 2012 #15
You kill to prevent killing.......again.....I don't see the logic....the life you take is final..... Namvet67 May 2012 #34
The logic is very simple... Clames May 2012 #36
clever but not helpful Namvet67 May 2012 #39
Helps me. Clames May 2012 #42
"You kill to prevent killing" Oneka May 2012 #38
So according to your philosophy oneshooter May 2012 #40
So we simply watch criminals kill innocents? hack89 May 2012 #43
Not all lives have the same value. GreenStormCloud May 2012 #44
While it may sound harsh... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #45
If you are convicted of imprisoning someone illegally, TPaine7 May 2012 #47
The law by itself does not adjust anyone's thinking. ManiacJoe May 2012 #20
Excellent set of questions. ManiacJoe May 2012 #3
Thank you for the reply! SoutherDem May 2012 #14
Follow ups. ManiacJoe May 2012 #18
What's a "warning shot"? AnotherMcIntosh May 2012 #21
No. If you miss, that is called poor marksmanship. ManiacJoe May 2012 #22
To scare may be the intent... Clames May 2012 #23
Agreed, AnotherMcIntosh May 2012 #25
I choose not to be an easy target... Clames May 2012 #6
In your home, at night, common law allowed you to use deadly force against a dwelling intruder. AnotherMcIntosh May 2012 #12
Remorse is the answer? SoutherDem May 2012 #16
No. "Expressed" remorse. AnotherMcIntosh May 2012 #19
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