Gun Control & RKBA

DanTex

(20,709 posts)

91. You're wrong here.

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:45 AM

Jun 2012

The question is whether a person with a CCW license is more dangerous than that same person would have been without the CCW license. If the answer is "yes", then allowing CCW is making society less safe. If "no", then it isn't. At least not directly. There are possible indirect effects in both directions (on one hand, the presence of CCWers could deter criminals, on the other it could cause an "arms race" where criminals would be more likely to carry guns themselves, and more likely to shoot at the first hint of resistance by the victim), but that's a different matter.

Like I said, I don't know of any study that actually addresses this question, and I don't even think the data is publically available to answer it fully.

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The gunman accused of killing five people in cold blood Wednesday had a concealed weapon permit [View all] MichaelHarris May 2012 OP

Without that permit, he couldn't possibly have done what he did slackmaster May 2012 #1

Another CCWer goes mad - yet you guys accept more like him toting. Hoyt May 2012 #15

If you say so. ManiacJoe May 2012 #27

And without that permit he couldn't possibly have done that rl6214 Jun 2012 #106

How do you figure that? n/t doc03 May 2012 #16

Well DUH! MichaelHarris's point is obviously that if the guy had no permit, he wouldn't have... slackmaster May 2012 #46

Of course he could. The permit was unrelated. Starboard Tack May 2012 #26

This is why I really enjoy reading your posts SGMRTDARMY May 2012 #31

Thanks. I try. Starboard Tack May 2012 #37

Good luck with making vets second class citizens hack89 May 2012 #42

Why would I ever want to make vets second class citizens? Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #47

Then don't suggest that every vet get a psych exam that could result in the loss of a civil liberty. hack89 Jun 2012 #56

Do you care more about losing the right to carry a gun Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #64

I can sympathize, but I see a problem... Glaug-Eldare Jun 2012 #65

I don't want to discriminate against vets. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #67

The vets deserve better mental health services than they are getting hack89 Jun 2012 #66

I don't think I said anything about losing their guns Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #68

Meaningless distinction. Too dangerous to carry but safe enough to have guns at home? hack89 Jun 2012 #75

I don't think it is meaningless at all. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #80

So mentally unbalanced people will never illegally take guns from home hack89 Jun 2012 #86

If you're suggesting removing guns from homes Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #92

Then why bother with psych exams for CCW? hack89 Jun 2012 #93

It's a step in the right direction. What's your solution? Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #98

The present laws are adequate hack89 Jun 2012 #99

The valid questions raise even more questions. krispos42 Jun 2012 #60

Your last paragraph makes sense. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #69

No, and I'm ambivalent. Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #63

The evaluation should be made to qualify, not disqualify for a CC permit. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #70

No. Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #71

Well that's where we differ. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #73

I disagree as well, but let's examine this idea a bit Glaug-Eldare Jun 2012 #74

Excellent points you make. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #78

That's an interesting way to do it! Glaug-Eldare Jun 2012 #81

It's probably a waste of time. Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #83

But now you've traded one gate keeper for another. Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #82

Wrong, not a psychologist. A psych evaluation. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #84

They do. Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #89

Any expense can be absorbed in permit fees. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #95

Interesting theory SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #97

I think it should be taxpayer funded. Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #100

The police are public servants Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #103

I just don't like regressive taxes. Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #105

Taking a test online is pointless. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #117

Why is it pointless? Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #125

Taking a test on line is pointless because anyone could take it for you Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #127

How do you ensure the examiners are blind, Glaug-Eldare Jun 2012 #128

The exams are taken in groups. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #129

Cops do much more than just carry guns. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #102

And I'm not suggesting CCW applicants take all the police exams. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #104

Why should CCW applicants take such an exam. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #116

Why? Did you miss the OP? Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #119

Use of resources must be prioritized. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #120

A few points Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #121

Here is why he doesn't count. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #123

By your reasoning the only solution is to evaluate all gun owners. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #126

So those that would shoot up a mall wouldn't buy a gun illegally? friendly_iconoclast Jun 2012 #130

We already do that. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #131

No, I don't want mentally unbalanced people walking around armed Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #132

CCWers who murder are extremely rare. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #135

Rare doesn't cut it when people keep dying, sorry. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #137

You still keep ducking the question. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #139

Sorry, I thought your question was rhetorical. Simple obvious answer "No!" Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #140

I have indeed proven that we are trustworthy. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #141

That is precisely why I am against such subjective requirements. Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #79

exactly right CreekDog Jun 2012 #133

Without a permit, he wouldn't have had a gun because it would have been ILLEGAL slackmaster Jun 2012 #134

so you're against permitting because you will follow the rules and a criminal will not CreekDog Jun 2012 #136

I have no problem with requiring a permit to legally carry a concealed, loaded weapon in public slackmaster Jun 2012 #138

It sounds like he may have had a concussive brain injury sarisataka May 2012 #2

The current WA state laws ManiacJoe May 2012 #13

I understand the process sarisataka May 2012 #14

I, for one, am against carrying concealed weapons. FLyellowdog May 2012 #3

You might have a point there HockeyMom May 2012 #6

Run from cops much? n/t PavePusher Jun 2012 #51

Who knows, you could be in line at ChuckeCHeeze when Swastika screws up. Hoyt Jun 2012 #107

Does Chuck E. Cheese have a corporate policy on firearms? n/t Glaug-Eldare Jun 2012 #108

Such policies are meaningless to those who worship 2nd Amendment. Hoyt Jun 2012 #109

Some dinguses ignore the signs, some take their business elsewhere. Glaug-Eldare Jun 2012 #110

Another broad-brush attack from you. n/t PavePusher Jun 2012 #111

Who is "Swastika"? And what are you insinuating? n/t PavePusher Jun 2012 #112

Probably a rude toter n/t Glaug-Eldare Jun 2012 #113

Sorry, I think it's Stawicki. Just another law-abiding gun dude until he shot innocent people. Hoyt Jun 2012 #114

Most people are law-abiding until the stop abiding by the law Glaug-Eldare Jun 2012 #115

Yep, and according to the gun culture, we just sit and wait until they shoot people. Hoyt Jun 2012 #118

Still operating from the presumption of guilt... Glaug-Eldare Jun 2012 #122

Occasionally, I've thought about getting a CCW permit simply to annoy gun-wowsers friendly_iconoclast Jun 2012 #124

How can you be nervous about Meiko May 2012 #8

We know you are there, standing in line at Chuck E Cheeze with a gun. Hoyt May 2012 #17

Is X-ray vision another of your many skills? SGMRTDARMY May 2012 #32

Spidey-Sense BiggJawn May 2012 #39

Do you ever go out to eat at a place that isn't Chuck E Cheeze? petronius May 2012 #41

Zimmerman eats there all the time. rrneck Jun 2012 #62

Not at all FLyellowdog May 2012 #36

In some places cops know by running the plate gejohnston May 2012 #38

A cop is NOT... PavePusher Jun 2012 #52

Decent people generally don't go out of their way to offend anyone.... PavePusher Jun 2012 #50

Would open carry laws really make criminals think twice? alp227 Jun 2012 #96

Oh hell, lets just pass a law that every one over 18 should carry a concealed weapon...that way demosincebirth May 2012 #4

Apparently, that is gun culture's plan. Many make money off the dang things too. Hoyt May 2012 #18

How can I get in on this money-making thing? mvccd1000 Jun 2012 #49

You type that like you think it is a bad thing to make money off guns. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #57

Small scale military industrial complex type stuff. Do you think trading in lethal weapons is cool? Hoyt Jun 2012 #58

Absolutely, it's cool. Here's what I just picked up: Browning 1910/55 .380 ACP in 98%(!) condition Johnny Rico Jun 2012 #61

Wow! That is a stunning collection piece. Well done!. n/t PavePusher Jun 2012 #85

Of course it is. Using them is even cooler- your avatar was proud of his: friendly_iconoclast Jun 2012 #76

None of the gunmen that killed 11 last weekend in Chicago had a a CCW DonP May 2012 #5

Criminals will always be able to get guns baldguy May 2012 #7

Exactly. And they'll support NRA and other right wing gun "advocates." Hoyt May 2012 #19

So the solution is what? hack89 May 2012 #43

Obviously, the solution is to write more angry, rude posts online DonP Jun 2012 #59

There is a process to remove the right of an individual to possess a firearm, or have a CPL. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #9

How about strict gun laws and beginning to close the pipeline. Hoyt May 2012 #21

That worked so well for gejohnston May 2012 #22

Works well in Switzerland. safeinOhio May 2012 #28

or Czech Republic gejohnston May 2012 #35

That has nothing to do with this issue. AtheistCrusader May 2012 #25

Why don't we model them on the drug laws? hack89 May 2012 #44

Are you implying that a person's constitutional right to own a gun should be violated... Speck Tater May 2012 #10

So it looks like he was indeed a gun nut Cali_Democrat May 2012 #11

Does that mean everyone with a permit is a gun nut? nt hack89 May 2012 #45

A certain other poster (who has been conspicuously absent from these threads lately) said just that. Common Sense Party Jun 2012 #53

Out of over 10 million with CCWs there will be a few bad apples. GreenStormCloud May 2012 #12

There's more than a "few bad apples. " Hoyt May 2012 #23

You ignored the proof that CCWers save more innocent lives than they kill. GreenStormCloud May 2012 #29

Don't bother. Anslinger-Wertham types don't "do" statistics. friendly_iconoclast Jun 2012 #48

How many are there? Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #90

I carried mine today and didn't shoot anyone. ileus May 2012 #20

Yeah, but because you can carry - a lot of sick people are legally toting. M Hoyt May 2012 #24

And what are YOU doing to make CCL illegal in Georgia? oneshooter May 2012 #30

Once again... Fredjust May 2012 #33

So what are you doing to repeal it? SGMRTDARMY May 2012 #34

Right, because that worked so well with alcohol. BiggJawn May 2012 #40

"[...] he had not sought treatment." Glaug-Eldare Jun 2012 #54

and 3) Denial JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2012 #55

Yup - CCW permit holders sometimes commit crimes. Fortunately, they do it less often than non-CCWers Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #72

It's not so fortunate for the AWS types that hate guns and gun owners. friendly_iconoclast Jun 2012 #77

As has been pointed out before, that is not the correct comparison. DanTex Jun 2012 #87

As I have corrected you before, it IS the correct comparison. Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #88

You're wrong here. DanTex Jun 2012 #91

I don't think that is the question at all. Atypical Liberal Jun 2012 #94

It would take a lot of work but it could be done. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #101

I'm sure that if he hadn't had a CWP this would never have happened. L0oniX Jun 2012 #142