Gun Control & RKBA

PavePusher

(15,374 posts)

57. It's not a tank (or artillery), it's an APV, and yes, the distinction is quite important...

Thu Jun 14, 2012, 06:34 PM

Jun 2012

as there is at least an order of magnitude difference in the destructive capabilities of each.

An APV could have been quite useful in the Hollywood Bank Robbery shootout some years ago. Hardened Meth labs. Some hostage/baricaded gunman situations. And no, the National Guard does not have domestic policing powers, takes time to be called up, mobilized and deployed, and is currently under primarily Federal control. IIRC, the state governors have to ask for Federal permission to use NG assets.

The problem with the coding has been explained several times, but in synopsis: It can be absurdly easily bypassed/defaced, so is of no possible use in catching criminals, and serves merely as a registration of lawful civilian firearms.

No, thank you.

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New Study Proves Microstamping Technology Works [View all] SecularMotion Jun 2012 OP

So, police and other government LE agencies will lead the way by early adoption.... PavePusher Jun 2012 #1

How about the Pentagon? krispos42 Jun 2012 #47

Will they be forced to retro-fit all their existing small arms? PavePusher Jun 2012 #58

IIRC, half way through the quarter? gejohnston Jun 2012 #61

Yep, purchase cards at the base supply store, or off-base, if stuff is cheaper. PavePusher Jun 2012 #62

Except when the firing pin is altered or worn, on revolvers and on all those millions of guns ... hack89 Jun 2012 #2

"The study, funded by the U.S. Department of Justice" Remmah2 Jun 2012 #8

Also funded by the Joyce Foundation. Dr_Scholl Jun 2012 #17

Same old same old SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #3

And? Scootaloo Jun 2012 #6

If this has any benefits towards solving crime, SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #9

Criminals are notorious for getting around laws in general; it's what makes them "criminals" Scootaloo Jun 2012 #16

Typical. SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #19

Well, it IS an NRA talking point Scootaloo Jun 2012 #21

some more than others. gejohnston Jun 2012 #25

And yet I get the feeling you understood my point perfectly well Scootaloo Jun 2012 #26

oh please, Do draw One. I love venn diagrams! Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #35

Well, I actually have to go to work, but enjoy this one! Scootaloo Jun 2012 #38

OH yes...the venn diagram really corresponds with the post and makes Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #71

This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #41

Calling something a talking point is NOT a rebuttal. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #45

Let's say it is avoided in 80% of cases, that means in 20% of cases it might be helpful. Hoyt Jun 2012 #49

What is the threshhold bewteen "useful" and "waste of time and money"? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #103

Not been reading my posts, have you? Scootaloo Jun 2012 #72

Decoy casings. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #79

Ah, so re-read my first paragraph to you Scootaloo Jun 2012 #81

Describe how micro-stanmping ammo would stop criminals who use these two tactics ... spin Jun 2012 #105

at least I'll feel safer if Jessica Fletcher visits me gejohnston Jun 2012 #20

I always get a laugh... Scootaloo Jun 2012 #22

"responsible car owners" are victims of car theft quite frequently. PavePusher Jun 2012 #32

Yes, but is every hit and run performed by a stolen car? Scootaloo Jun 2012 #33

Very few guns are stolen, but it doesn't take many. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #48

Except that there are problem with your analogy krispos42 Jun 2012 #52

Remember, for microstamping to work, the gun must be registered with the criminal! Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #70

The problem is that when the Fed changes the design of the dollar... OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #18

One would think that as part of that well-regulated militia... Scootaloo Jun 2012 #23

It is the militia that is well regulated, not the individual. (well regulated MILITIA) OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #50

For someone who's "not interested," you make quite a show Scootaloo Jun 2012 #69

The first ammendment references "the people". Do individuals not have 1st A rights? OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #73

Yes, state constitutions refine the language Scootaloo Jun 2012 #89

Oh, I see now. So you're using your literal interpretation instead of the legal one. OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #94

So I don't have an individual right to assemble or to privacy? Really? hack89 Jun 2012 #76

Coming from someone who spent a whole day arguing that the 5th amendment isn't real... Scootaloo Jun 2012 #90

No- I said that prosecutors don't indict unless they think a crime has been committed hack89 Jun 2012 #96

You're putting on quite a show, too. mvccd1000 Jun 2012 #87

It shows that I understand the English language Scootaloo Jun 2012 #88

No, no it doesn't. Clames Jun 2012 #93

Perhaps, if LE agencies were scrambling to lead the way, it might be more convincing. PavePusher Jun 2012 #28

I read it slightly differently than you, of course Scootaloo Jun 2012 #30

I'm not reading what you are merely from their equipment... PavePusher Jun 2012 #31

A tank does not strike me as integral to the concept of "protect and serve" Scootaloo Jun 2012 #34

I don't think the APC was acually in their budget gejohnston Jun 2012 #46

It's not a tank (or artillery), it's an APV, and yes, the distinction is quite important... PavePusher Jun 2012 #57

90+% is good sarisataka Jun 2012 #4

Heh, plus the annual registration fee of $50. krispos42 Jun 2012 #53

It ends up being a boost to the economy. Remmah2 Jun 2012 #97

How many crimes were solved by NY's CoBIS program? Remmah2 Jun 2012 #5

Gov. Cuomo supports this program SecularMotion Jun 2012 #7

Nice spam link got NYAGV. Remmah2 Jun 2012 #10

How does this make NY cities safer? SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #12

It will make you "feel" safer. Remmah2 Jun 2012 #15

Isn't that about all that gun in your pants does? Hoyt Jun 2012 #39

Not really... a gun in someone pants can actually be effective in self defense. OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #54

Yes, in a few cases, a gun in your pants might be effective. But, you can't just look at guns from Hoyt Jun 2012 #99

Why are you obsessed what's in my pants? Remmah2 Jun 2012 #95

Because guns are contagious. Hoyt Jun 2012 #100

For it to work you'll have to outlaw private sales, and somehow stolen firearms. ileus Jun 2012 #11

A press release in the Wall Street Journal? gejohnston Jun 2012 #13

Markertwatch huh... rrneck Jun 2012 #14

Well, if folks have no problem with the New York Post being cited in the thread... Scootaloo Jun 2012 #24

I think you missed the point. rrneck Jun 2012 #36

LOL @ use of the term "peer-reviewed" slackmaster Jun 2012 #27

Well done. n/t PavePusher Jun 2012 #29

And just like that, you've got me on your side Scootaloo Jun 2012 #37

Gun culture will never accept findings unless endorsed by Ted Nugent, manufacturers, Hoyt Jun 2012 #42

Anything that costs public money to implement and maintain, yet does no good, does harm to everyone slackmaster Jun 2012 #43

The "public money" stonewalling. Cost of maintaining database is small. Hoyt Jun 2012 #44

I think it's safe to assume that costs would be similar to those for New York's CoBIS system slackmaster Jun 2012 #55

$65 Billion from Oxnard to gejohnston Jun 2012 #59

Current plan for the first segment is 300 miles from Merced to the San Fernando Valley slackmaster Jun 2012 #65

What if it helps solve some crimes and track guns used in crime back to the source? Hoyt Jun 2012 #64

That's exactly what CoBIS was supposed to do in New York. Maryland and Hawaii have similar programs. slackmaster Jun 2012 #66

Not only that, one of the authors is Todd Lizotte, the inventor and patent-holder (?) petronius Jun 2012 #106

If you were to design a test... Glassunion Jun 2012 #108

Good stuff, but politicians won't pay any attention to that sciency stuff slackmaster Jun 2012 #109

So basically they proved that pressing a soft metal against a harder metal with a design on it... Clames Jun 2012 #40

Regarding microstamping.. Callisto32 Jun 2012 #92

Ah, just give it a try. Isn't that tactic right wing gun lobbyists used on shall issue, SYG, etc. Hoyt Jun 2012 #51

So you're saying that giving it a try to see what happens is NOT a good reason to do something slackmaster Jun 2012 #56

No, I'm saying microstamping is better for society than "shall issue," SYG, guns in more pants, etc. Hoyt Jun 2012 #63

Do your really mean better, or are you just trying to say it would be less harmful? slackmaster Jun 2012 #67

No. "Give it a try" isn't such a tactic. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #60

What's your problem with perhaps solving some crimes or helping track crime guns back to source? Hoyt Jun 2012 #68

What's your problem with physics? Clames Jun 2012 #74

Who says that but right wingers? This ain't physics, it's trying to decide what is good Hoyt Jun 2012 #75

You and your labels. Clames Jun 2012 #78

The only aspect remotely "physics, " is impact of bullet on someone who might not deserve it. Hoyt Jun 2012 #80

Wrong. Clames Jun 2012 #85

Fairly easy to prove. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #77

Your last comment is particularly ironic. What kind of trial will you give to one you perceive as Hoyt Jun 2012 #82

Pretty sleazy, Hoyt. Straw Man Jun 2012 #83

Again, what "trial" will you give someone if you put a lethal weapon in your pocket? Hoyt Jun 2012 #84

It's hard to convene a jury in a parking garage Glaug-Eldare Jun 2012 #86

What "trial" do police give armed assailants ... Straw Man Jun 2012 #104

Exactly the same kind that he is about to give to me... GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #91

How many times have you been attacked where a gun would have done you any good? Hoyt Jun 2012 #101

Are you giving absolute, 100%, guarantees that it won't happen? GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #102

This study....how many firearms with this technology did they put out there? ileus Jun 2012 #98

What about floating firing pins? Glassunion Jun 2012 #107