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OneTenthofOnePercent

(6,268 posts)
73. The first ammendment references "the people". Do individuals not have 1st A rights?
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 10:37 PM
Jun 2012

Some state constitutions of the time written in clearer language dictate the indivual right to own arms. These authors include some of the same men present at the signing of the Constitution. Why would the intent of these more clearly worded state constitutions and the US constitution differ from an individual versus a collective right? The intent of our state and national leaders was to ensure individual right to ownership. And many of the constitutions written later reflect this...

Alabama: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state. Art. I, § 26 (enacted 1819)
Arizona: The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men. Art. II, § 26
Arkansas: The citizens of this State shall have the right to keep and bear arms for their common defense. Art. II, § 5 (enacted 1868, art. I, § 5).
Colorado: The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons. Art. II, § 13 (enacted 1876, art. II, § 13).
Connecticut: Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state. Art. I, § 15 (enacted 1818, art. I, § 17).
Delaware: A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use. Art. I, § 20
Kentucky: All men are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned: ...
VII: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons. § 1
Louisiana: The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged, but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed on the person. Art. I, § 11
Maine: Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned. Art. I, § 16
Michigan: Every person has a right to bear arms for the defence of himself and the State. Art. I, § 13.
Mississippi: Every citizen has a right to bear arms, in defence of himself and the State. Art. I, § 23. (1817)
Missouri: That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons. Art. I, § 23
Montana: The right of any person to keep or bear arms in defense of his own home, person, and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but nothing herein contained shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. Art. II, § 12
Nebraska: All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the right to keep and bear arms for security or defense of self, family, home, and others, and for lawful common defense, hunting, recreational use, and all other lawful purposes, and such rights shall not be denied or infringed by the state or any subdivision thereof. Art. I, § 1
Nevada: Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes. Art. I, § 11(1)
New Hampshire: All persons have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves, their families, their property and the state. Pt. 1, art. 2-a
North Dakota: All individuals are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation; pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness; and to keep and bear arms for the defense of their person, family, property, and the state, and for lawful hunting, recreational, and other lawful purposes, which shall not be infringed. Art. I, § 1 (right to keep and bear arms enacted 1984).
Oklahoma: The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power, when thereunto legally summoned, shall never be prohibited; but nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from regulating the carrying of weapons. Art. II, § 26 (enacted 1907).
Texas: Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime. Art. I, § 23 (enacted 1876).
Utah: The individual right of the people to keep and bear arms for security and defense of self, family, others, property, or the state, as well as for other lawful purposes shall not be infringed; but nothing herein shall prevent the legislature from defining the lawful use of arms. Art. I, § 6
Vermont: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State -- and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power. Ch. I, art. 16 (enacted 1777, ch. I, art. 15).
Washington: The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men. Art. I, § 24 (enacted 1889).
West Virginia: A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and state, and for lawful hunting and recreational use. Art. III, § 22


Even recently the Scotus has ruled that firearm ownership IS a protected individual right. Read through the recent SCOTUS Heller case. In the dissenting opinions, all justices (even the ones that voted against the plaintiff) affirmed the right is indivual - the split in the justices' vote was about the extent and reasonableness of restrictions. Of course, no right is unlimited without restriction. Personal rights are limited where they begin to infringe others' rights. Bombs, explosives, artilery and other nondiscrimatory weapons are much more restricted than simple firearms. Nondiscriminate weapons appears to be the "line in the sand" for increased ownership regulation. I can shoot my local gun at the range witout endagerring others. I'm not sure about atom bombs... I'm not sure how one would reasonably use an atom bomb anywhere in north america without infringing on the rights of others.

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So, police and other government LE agencies will lead the way by early adoption.... PavePusher Jun 2012 #1
How about the Pentagon? krispos42 Jun 2012 #47
Will they be forced to retro-fit all their existing small arms? PavePusher Jun 2012 #58
IIRC, half way through the quarter? gejohnston Jun 2012 #61
Yep, purchase cards at the base supply store, or off-base, if stuff is cheaper. PavePusher Jun 2012 #62
Except when the firing pin is altered or worn, on revolvers and on all those millions of guns ... hack89 Jun 2012 #2
"The study, funded by the U.S. Department of Justice" Remmah2 Jun 2012 #8
Also funded by the Joyce Foundation. Dr_Scholl Jun 2012 #17
Same old same old SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #3
And? Scootaloo Jun 2012 #6
If this has any benefits towards solving crime, SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #9
Criminals are notorious for getting around laws in general; it's what makes them "criminals" Scootaloo Jun 2012 #16
Typical. SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #19
Well, it IS an NRA talking point Scootaloo Jun 2012 #21
some more than others. gejohnston Jun 2012 #25
And yet I get the feeling you understood my point perfectly well Scootaloo Jun 2012 #26
oh please, Do draw One. I love venn diagrams! Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #35
Well, I actually have to go to work, but enjoy this one! Scootaloo Jun 2012 #38
OH yes...the venn diagram really corresponds with the post and makes Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #71
This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #41
Calling something a talking point is NOT a rebuttal. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #45
Let's say it is avoided in 80% of cases, that means in 20% of cases it might be helpful. Hoyt Jun 2012 #49
What is the threshhold bewteen "useful" and "waste of time and money"? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #103
Not been reading my posts, have you? Scootaloo Jun 2012 #72
Decoy casings. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #79
Ah, so re-read my first paragraph to you Scootaloo Jun 2012 #81
Describe how micro-stanmping ammo would stop criminals who use these two tactics ... spin Jun 2012 #105
at least I'll feel safer if Jessica Fletcher visits me gejohnston Jun 2012 #20
I always get a laugh... Scootaloo Jun 2012 #22
"responsible car owners" are victims of car theft quite frequently. PavePusher Jun 2012 #32
Yes, but is every hit and run performed by a stolen car? Scootaloo Jun 2012 #33
Very few guns are stolen, but it doesn't take many. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #48
Except that there are problem with your analogy krispos42 Jun 2012 #52
Remember, for microstamping to work, the gun must be registered with the criminal! Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #70
The problem is that when the Fed changes the design of the dollar... OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #18
One would think that as part of that well-regulated militia... Scootaloo Jun 2012 #23
It is the militia that is well regulated, not the individual. (well regulated MILITIA) OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #50
For someone who's "not interested," you make quite a show Scootaloo Jun 2012 #69
The first ammendment references "the people". Do individuals not have 1st A rights? OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #73
Yes, state constitutions refine the language Scootaloo Jun 2012 #89
Oh, I see now. So you're using your literal interpretation instead of the legal one. OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #94
So I don't have an individual right to assemble or to privacy? Really? hack89 Jun 2012 #76
Coming from someone who spent a whole day arguing that the 5th amendment isn't real... Scootaloo Jun 2012 #90
No- I said that prosecutors don't indict unless they think a crime has been committed hack89 Jun 2012 #96
You're putting on quite a show, too. mvccd1000 Jun 2012 #87
It shows that I understand the English language Scootaloo Jun 2012 #88
No, no it doesn't. Clames Jun 2012 #93
Perhaps, if LE agencies were scrambling to lead the way, it might be more convincing. PavePusher Jun 2012 #28
I read it slightly differently than you, of course Scootaloo Jun 2012 #30
I'm not reading what you are merely from their equipment... PavePusher Jun 2012 #31
A tank does not strike me as integral to the concept of "protect and serve" Scootaloo Jun 2012 #34
I don't think the APC was acually in their budget gejohnston Jun 2012 #46
It's not a tank (or artillery), it's an APV, and yes, the distinction is quite important... PavePusher Jun 2012 #57
90+% is good sarisataka Jun 2012 #4
Heh, plus the annual registration fee of $50. krispos42 Jun 2012 #53
It ends up being a boost to the economy. Remmah2 Jun 2012 #97
How many crimes were solved by NY's CoBIS program? Remmah2 Jun 2012 #5
Gov. Cuomo supports this program SecularMotion Jun 2012 #7
Nice spam link got NYAGV. Remmah2 Jun 2012 #10
How does this make NY cities safer? SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #12
It will make you "feel" safer. Remmah2 Jun 2012 #15
Isn't that about all that gun in your pants does? Hoyt Jun 2012 #39
Not really... a gun in someone pants can actually be effective in self defense. OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #54
Yes, in a few cases, a gun in your pants might be effective. But, you can't just look at guns from Hoyt Jun 2012 #99
Why are you obsessed what's in my pants? Remmah2 Jun 2012 #95
Because guns are contagious. Hoyt Jun 2012 #100
For it to work you'll have to outlaw private sales, and somehow stolen firearms. ileus Jun 2012 #11
A press release in the Wall Street Journal? gejohnston Jun 2012 #13
Markertwatch huh... rrneck Jun 2012 #14
Well, if folks have no problem with the New York Post being cited in the thread... Scootaloo Jun 2012 #24
I think you missed the point. rrneck Jun 2012 #36
LOL @ use of the term "peer-reviewed" slackmaster Jun 2012 #27
Well done. n/t PavePusher Jun 2012 #29
And just like that, you've got me on your side Scootaloo Jun 2012 #37
Gun culture will never accept findings unless endorsed by Ted Nugent, manufacturers, Hoyt Jun 2012 #42
Anything that costs public money to implement and maintain, yet does no good, does harm to everyone slackmaster Jun 2012 #43
The "public money" stonewalling. Cost of maintaining database is small. Hoyt Jun 2012 #44
I think it's safe to assume that costs would be similar to those for New York's CoBIS system slackmaster Jun 2012 #55
$65 Billion from Oxnard to gejohnston Jun 2012 #59
Current plan for the first segment is 300 miles from Merced to the San Fernando Valley slackmaster Jun 2012 #65
What if it helps solve some crimes and track guns used in crime back to the source? Hoyt Jun 2012 #64
That's exactly what CoBIS was supposed to do in New York. Maryland and Hawaii have similar programs. slackmaster Jun 2012 #66
Not only that, one of the authors is Todd Lizotte, the inventor and patent-holder (?) petronius Jun 2012 #106
If you were to design a test... Glassunion Jun 2012 #108
Good stuff, but politicians won't pay any attention to that sciency stuff slackmaster Jun 2012 #109
So basically they proved that pressing a soft metal against a harder metal with a design on it... Clames Jun 2012 #40
Regarding microstamping.. Callisto32 Jun 2012 #92
Ah, just give it a try. Isn't that tactic right wing gun lobbyists used on shall issue, SYG, etc. Hoyt Jun 2012 #51
So you're saying that giving it a try to see what happens is NOT a good reason to do something slackmaster Jun 2012 #56
No, I'm saying microstamping is better for society than "shall issue," SYG, guns in more pants, etc. Hoyt Jun 2012 #63
Do your really mean better, or are you just trying to say it would be less harmful? slackmaster Jun 2012 #67
No. "Give it a try" isn't such a tactic. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #60
What's your problem with perhaps solving some crimes or helping track crime guns back to source? Hoyt Jun 2012 #68
What's your problem with physics? Clames Jun 2012 #74
Who says that but right wingers? This ain't physics, it's trying to decide what is good Hoyt Jun 2012 #75
You and your labels. Clames Jun 2012 #78
The only aspect remotely "physics, " is impact of bullet on someone who might not deserve it. Hoyt Jun 2012 #80
Wrong. Clames Jun 2012 #85
Fairly easy to prove. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #77
Your last comment is particularly ironic. What kind of trial will you give to one you perceive as Hoyt Jun 2012 #82
Pretty sleazy, Hoyt. Straw Man Jun 2012 #83
Again, what "trial" will you give someone if you put a lethal weapon in your pocket? Hoyt Jun 2012 #84
It's hard to convene a jury in a parking garage Glaug-Eldare Jun 2012 #86
What "trial" do police give armed assailants ... Straw Man Jun 2012 #104
Exactly the same kind that he is about to give to me... GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #91
How many times have you been attacked where a gun would have done you any good? Hoyt Jun 2012 #101
Are you giving absolute, 100%, guarantees that it won't happen? GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #102
This study....how many firearms with this technology did they put out there? ileus Jun 2012 #98
What about floating firing pins? Glassunion Jun 2012 #107
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