Gun Control & RKBA

Starboard Tack

(11,181 posts)

40. Your first obligation is to think.

Mon Jun 18, 2012, 11:18 AM

Jun 2012

You seem very confused about SYG and SD. Anyone has the right to self defense. It is a universal right. SYG is a legal right to kill someone who you "reasonably believe is threatening your life", if you say so. SD includes a burden of proof, which is only logical. SYG is a free pass.
Example: Woman is being followed in parking lot by suspected would-be rapist/mugger. She has choices.
Choice 1. (DTR) She changes course, runs, avoids confrontation if at all possible. She doesn't get raped and nobody gets shot.
Choice 2. (SYG) She feels afraid, stops, turns, pulls out a gun, adopts a stance, he keeps approaching, she aims and fires. Kills some guy who was just walking to his car. The judge/DA has to take her word for it, unless there are witnesses to the contrary.

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"Legally allowing women to shoot their rapists only encourages murders." [View all] Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 OP

Better to be raped or murdered first and then let the legal system handle it. dkf Jun 2012 #1

You never hear about it because Gman Jun 2012 #2

+1 ellisonz Jun 2012 #31

Doesn't she have that right without SYG? HockeyMom Jun 2012 #3

SYG adds nothing new except the would-be victim is not required to retreat Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #4

Again, if homicide is not the last resort caseymoz Jun 2012 #9

Conversely, what is the first obligation? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #15

I believe that was treated sufficiently with the law before caseymoz Jun 2012 #19

If more people are killed under SYG and no one is convicted Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #21

a thread-killer :) discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2012 #23

Then why does Corrections Corporation of America exist? BiggJawn Jun 2012 #28

It just bothers me. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2012 #33

Bothers me, too. BiggJawn Jun 2012 #38

I know what you mean. Not cool! discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2012 #39

I wasn't commenting on the rightness or wrongness of privately owned prisons Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #42

Except that it is true. AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #29

True? For sure it is. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2012 #34

Your first obligation is to think. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #40

You are confused about SYG. gejohnston Jun 2012 #41

You are the one who is not thinking and is seriously confused about SD and SYG ProgressiveProfessor Jun 2012 #67

No, gejohnston Jun 2012 #27

"Reasonable man" will not even be applied. caseymoz Jun 2012 #57

not even remotely true gejohnston Jun 2012 #58

Your example fails. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #50

Um, I didn't say the two situations were alike caseymoz Jun 2012 #52

Yes that is true ... spin Jun 2012 #5

Good points... OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #12

Of course she does. DanTex Jun 2012 #10

Should people be convicted if they resort to deadly force Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #14

Wrong. TPaine7 Jun 2012 #25

You're channeling Hoyt. PavePusher Jun 2012 #53

The standard for self defense has not changed hack89 Jun 2012 #55

Here's the difference: caseymoz Jun 2012 #6

"SYG stops investigations" Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #7

True in many other cases. caseymoz Jun 2012 #8

I provided an example; you provided wild, unfounded conjecture Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #11

I found your response to be insulting. caseymoz Jun 2012 #17

Saying something is demonstrably false and then providing an example is insulting? Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2012 #20

"People's emotional attachment" to SYG exists because ... MicaelS Jun 2012 #18

Then I think they need general reform caseymoz Jun 2012 #47

"SYG stops investigations." PavePusher Jun 2012 #22

You are misinformed. caseymoz Jun 2012 #44

No, I'm not "misinformed". PavePusher Jun 2012 #54

Arrest and trial ARE punishment, if one hasn't actually done something wrong. PavePusher Jun 2012 #24

I agree, but that's not the assumption behind our laws. caseymoz Jun 2012 #45

I think I see the problem here. PavePusher Jun 2012 #56

If you insist on legally accurate terms caseymoz Jun 2012 #59

"Idiot"? Not at all. "Confused", maybe. Or possibly, by your own admission, "misleading". PavePusher Jun 2012 #60

As far as I know, there is no "right to kill" in self-defense. If you were to claim such a right TPaine7 Jun 2012 #26

As far as you know? caseymoz Jun 2012 #46

Yes, and as far as you know, and as far as anyone knows in US law. TPaine7 Jun 2012 #49

Oh, so you're nitpicking on my wording. caseymoz Jun 2012 #51

Errors. AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #30

Um, no. Because your car keys aren't going to kill you. caseymoz Jun 2012 #48

'presentation' AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #61

Short for now. caseymoz Jun 2012 #62

I don't know about the lady's defense lawyer gejohnston Jun 2012 #63

lol. Don't like the rest of us with guns? caseymoz Jun 2012 #65

Smith and Wesson is not a big corporation. gejohnston Jun 2012 #66

Most of the SYG laws in play are older than ALEC. AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #64

How fast can you run? rrneck Jun 2012 #13

Plant throwdown skittles and tea on them. WingDinger Jun 2012 #16

We have been told here sarisataka Jun 2012 #32

I wonder if the poster would feel that a 100 pound woman ... spin Jun 2012 #35

It is good to be aware sarisataka Jun 2012 #36

Good point. (n/t) spin Jun 2012 #37

"Only the Sith deal in absolutes" - Obi Wan Glassunion Jun 2012 #43