Gun Control & RKBA

DrDan

(20,411 posts) Tue Jul 3, 2012, 10:40 AM Jul 2012

free speech supported for Florida docs - in opposition to NRA desire to gag [View all]

A federal judge has blocked the state of Florida from enforcing a law pushed by firearms advocates that banned thousands of doctors from discussing gun ownership with their patients.

U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke, who had already issued a preliminary injunction last September, made her decision permanent late Friday when she ruled in favor of groups of physicians who asserted that the law violated their free speech rights. She said the law was so "vague" that it violated the First Amendment rights of doctors, noting that the legislation's privacy provisions "fail to provide any standards for practitioners to follow."

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-07-03/story/federal-judge-blocks-florida-law-preventing-doctors-discussing-gun#ixzz1zZRDKd9k

200 replies

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Highlight:

free speech supported for Florida docs - in opposition to NRA desire to gag [View all] DrDan Jul 2012 OP

gawd forbid we should keep guns out of the hands of people with violent fantasies & mental illness wordpix Jul 2012 #1

a poll on this forum (old DU) had 5 members supporting NO restrictions to gun ownership DrDan Jul 2012 #3

Oh boy. A whole five? That's... a .... lot? AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #33

no control over gun ownership . . . 5 astounds me DrDan Jul 2012 #34

There's hundreds of people in these forums. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #38

Six. I didn't get to take part in that poll. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #93

I wouldn't think removing age restictions and allowing mentally-challenged to own guns would be DrDan Jul 2012 #177

re: "...we should keep guns out of the hands..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #23

Especially a pediatrician Euromutt Jul 2012 #105

I would understand... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #145

Welcome back. You've been gone a long time. We missed you. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #150

I have no problem with doctors discussing gun ownership. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #2

And, I hope doctor looks at you and says, "For your child's sake and others, get out of my office." Hoyt Jul 2012 #9

Why would you wish for that? permatex Jul 2012 #19

shouldn't that be the doctor's prerogative? DrDan Jul 2012 #21

Sure it should permatex Jul 2012 #22

Because no physician should have to put up with what NewMoon posted. It's that simple. Hoyt Jul 2012 #27

What's wrong with telling your pediatrician permatex Jul 2012 #41

Your irrational love of guns, Dude, astounds me as well. Hoyt Jul 2012 #43

Then I've done my job here permatex Jul 2012 #44

You've dodged the question. PavePusher Jul 2012 #77

Not gonna happen Hoyt Meiko Jul 2012 #35

How does the doctor refusing treatment help the child. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #48

8 children dying per day seems to venture into the realm of a pediatrician DrDan Jul 2012 #51

That number is false. Less than one per day. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #54

uh huh . . . ok (denial does nothing to help the situation) DrDan Jul 2012 #62

Let's see the source then? pipoman Jul 2012 #76

read the article DrDan Jul 2012 #115

I did pipoman Jul 2012 #121

demonstrated by those with an ideological bias DrDan Jul 2012 #129

Back atcha permatex Jul 2012 #137

The truth is the truth and lies are lies, regardless the messenger.. pipoman Jul 2012 #140

I trust the U.S. Government's Center For Disease control for their statistics. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #123

And by refusing treatment the doctor helps the situation? GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #55

Pools are far more dangerous to children than guns 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #161

I said nothing of withholding treatment of child. Just get the unfit dad out of the office. Hoyt Jul 2012 #72

I think you know full well why this happened in the first place, no? pipoman Jul 2012 #78

Be interesting to see if the is even allowed to happen under ACA ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #83

Why would the father or mother be unfit if they refused to answer a question about guns in the home? permatex Jul 2012 #95

That's fine by me, also. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #57

New Definition! bongbong Jul 2012 #66

How about a father so wedded to his guns that he won't even listen to someone who has probably Hoyt Jul 2012 #73

I'm not sure what your question is. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #88

I would suggest you do act on it. To do otherwise would be irresponsible. Hoyt Jul 2012 #89

I already store my guns securely. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #92

And I would suggest you worry about yourself . permatex Jul 2012 #96

And just how is the doctor to know this? permatex Jul 2012 #120

I have fired doctors for less. eallen Jul 2012 #71

I agree. And I would want one who confronts parents who smoke, drink too much, have a bunch of guns, Hoyt Jul 2012 #74

If I admit owning a gun will my pediatrician refuse treatment? Hangingon Jul 2012 #4

Nope, doctors will tell you to keep it away from kids and provide you some other valuable advice. Hoyt Jul 2012 #8

Really? No. You are wrong again. pipoman Jul 2012 #80

Jeeezus. I had not seen a photo of father. No wonder Pediatrician was so adamant/concerned. Hoyt Jul 2012 #90

LOLOLOLOLOL pipoman Jul 2012 #94

Yes, I can be quite judgemental of folks who carry guns. This guy just Hoyt Jul 2012 #97

So because you don't like what someone looks like permatex Jul 2012 #99

Geez really? Where have I pipoman Jul 2012 #100

I do know several things about him. One guns are too friggin important to him. Hoyt Jul 2012 #101

How about a cite pipoman Jul 2012 #104

Where does it say he was "carrying" a gun? DonP Jul 2012 #107

In the seminal case, the Doc refused care ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #84

Actually, Professor, doc did not refuse care. Gave family 30days to find another ped. Hoyt Jul 2012 #103

So you admit he did not give some simplistic advice as you claimed he would? ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #118

Actually you and DrDan have argued that doctors can dismiss patients for any reason. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #119

About time someone saw the wisdom in this. Maybe a few more kids will make it to adulthood. Hoyt Jul 2012 #5

That was a silly law... mvccd1000 Jul 2012 #6

I have no problem with this ruling permatex Jul 2012 #7

I hope doctor shows you a picture from emergency room where supposedly responsible gun owner's child Hoyt Jul 2012 #10

I don't need a doctor to show me that permatex Jul 2012 #11

Didn't the courts rule that patients can't be forced to put up with crap like that? NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #164

Good to see 1A still has some merit in Florida. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #12

I wholeheartedly agree with you permatex Jul 2012 #15

There will always be some parents who put their devotion to guns before the love for their children. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #163

Your entitled to your opinion permatex Jul 2012 #170

And what would a civil answer have cost you? Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #171

OK my civil answer would have been permatex Jul 2012 #172

Questions... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #13

Just don't tell the doc you're an NRA member. TheCowsCameHome Jul 2012 #14

LMAO Hoyt Jul 2012 #16

Good point permatex Jul 2012 #17

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it ... spin Jul 2012 #47

There's more to this story than meets the eye ... spin Jul 2012 #18

a patient has a choice, so should the doctor DrDan Jul 2012 #20

Just like pharmacists, right? DonP Jul 2012 #25

so if a patient refuses to share information critical to family health with their physician, DrDan Jul 2012 #28

So gun ownership is "critical to family health" now ... according to who? You? DonP Jul 2012 #36

it is critical to the 8 children that die daily DrDan Jul 2012 #37

I would point out that it is critical that the pediatrician point out to a parent ... spin Jul 2012 #42

You mean "Brady" children = up to 24 years old? Those children? DonP Jul 2012 #50

That number is false. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #52

the number came from the link in the OP - but you would know that if you took the DrDan Jul 2012 #53

Your number is still a lie. I went to the CDC for the true number. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #56

I'll trust the source from the link . . . DrDan Jul 2012 #60

Recognizing that... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #64

That source is the Brady Center, which has been shown to lie to advance their agenda. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #126

shown by NRA and gun owners, right? DrDan Jul 2012 #127

Shown using data from the U.S. Government's Center For Disease control. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #130

8 per year . . . but go ahead and continue to muddle with the definitions if DrDan Jul 2012 #135

So you want to insist that 19 year old men in the Army are children? N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #143

one every 2 hours and 45 minutes DrDan Jul 2012 #147

I did read it sarisataka Jul 2012 #68

Here ya are again making up numbers, eh? pipoman Jul 2012 #82

nope - just reading the article DrDan Jul 2012 #112

And choosing to believe fiction over fact.. pipoman Jul 2012 #124

wrong on more than one level discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #39

guns sharing a home with children is, on it's own, "critical" DrDan Jul 2012 #49

It's amazing how so concerned you doctors are.. MicaelS Jul 2012 #58

you really should avoid jumping to conclusions about others DrDan Jul 2012 #59

He happens to be correct. You health care professionals are far deadlier than gun owners: friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #98

"DrDan" isn't a health care professional; he holds a PhD in computer science (n/t) Euromutt Jul 2012 #109

more jumping to conclusions . . . DrDan Jul 2012 #113

No, I'm going by what I recall you telling me Euromutt Jul 2012 #116

my comment was not in response to your post DrDan Jul 2012 #117

not in the medical sense n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #61

I guess anything goes in protecting the sanctity of guns DrDan Jul 2012 #63

anything goes in protecting rights discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #65

typical DrDan Jul 2012 #70

There are important differences between physicians and pharmacists. eallen Jul 2012 #75

Answer every question I ask you, or I'll drop you krispos42 Jul 2012 #67

hyperbole DrDan Jul 2012 #69

Like "8 children a day"? n/t PavePusher Jul 2012 #79

read the article DrDan Jul 2012 #114

Yeah, I did. Where does that "stat " of "8 kids a day" come from? n/t PavePusher Jul 2012 #139

Accurate. krispos42 Jul 2012 #91

You can't really support a doctor for dismissing a patient who wished to maintain privacy... aikoaiko Jul 2012 #122

I can support a doctor in dropping a family when the parents exhibit more DrDan Jul 2012 #132

Since the child is at far greater risk from many other things.... PavePusher Jul 2012 #134

the doctor exercised his prerogative, rightfully so DrDan Jul 2012 #142

And you have failed to answer my question. PavePusher Jul 2012 #159

She only said she didn't want to answer the question, the intake stopped, and she was dismissed. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #138

never claimed to be an MD DrDan Jul 2012 #146

Do you support doctors dimissing their patients for any reason? aikoaiko Jul 2012 #153

no DrDan Jul 2012 #154

RW-whacko, gun loving friends permatex Jul 2012 #141

I certainly do - utterly stupid DrDan Jul 2012 #144

Well, at least we agree on something permatex Jul 2012 #152

that's where we part - I do think it is their business DrDan Jul 2012 #155

disrobing for her arm? gejohnston Jul 2012 #156

I was in the room - and I fully understand the reason DrDan Jul 2012 #158

Thats where we will agree to disagree permatex Jul 2012 #157

Wrong, wrong, WRONG. PavePusher Jul 2012 #160

yes they can - at least in Florida they can - thanks to the sensible judge DrDan Jul 2012 #162

Do you believe a doctor should be able to refuse care if told "NOYB"? PavePusher Jul 2012 #165

what a load DrDan Jul 2012 #166

I'll note that you still haven't been able to cite the source of the "stat" you quoted earlier. PavePusher Jul 2012 #167

once again . . . follow the link in the OP DrDan Jul 2012 #168

I take it your PhD is *not* in statistics, as that "8 per day" number you keep touting is incorrect. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #173

nice attempt at deflecting the argument DrDan Jul 2012 #176

Would *you* listen to someone who insisted "pi = 3"? That's less of an error... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #181

I have read the corroborating support for that number - and I am comfortable with it DrDan Jul 2012 #186

I went to the link in the OP. PavePusher Jul 2012 #174

we all get it - you do not like the number because it makes clear the impact of guns DrDan Jul 2012 #175

Why is someone with a doctorate in a technical field defending factual inaccuracy? friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #180

Stop lying about my opinion, which I have not actually offered. PavePusher Jul 2012 #182

I do - you refuse to acknowledge that I provided my source DrDan Jul 2012 #184

every 2 hours and 45 minutes DrDan Jul 2012 #169

I ask again: Where does your cited stat come from? n/t PavePusher Jul 2012 #183

I don't know how to say it any differently - I provided the source for the number I stated DrDan Jul 2012 #185

O.K., I'll be as clear as possible. PavePusher Jul 2012 #187

you asked for my source . . . I gave you my source DrDan Jul 2012 #191

No, if you look back, I did not ask you for YOUR source.... PavePusher Jul 2012 #192

"Where does your cited stat come from?" - #183 DrDan Jul 2012 #193

In other words, a number pulled from the Ether..... PavePusher Jul 2012 #194

and your source for "lies" would be . . . . DrDan Jul 2012 #196

If Pave won't say it, I will. gejohnston Jul 2012 #199

I can understand that there may be different ways of cutting the data, for example DrDan Jul 2012 #200

BTW.... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #24

If people are worried about docs asking about gun ownership... just lie and say. "no" OneTenthofOnePercent Jul 2012 #26

That's why a doctor asking that question is counterproductive ... spin Jul 2012 #45

What a disappointment. The article doesn't refer to the NRA at all. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #29

did you actually read the linked article? DrDan Jul 2012 #30

Thank you. So the NRA was not involved. The judge said that it could not be involved. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #31

the NRA tried to intervene . . . got it? DrDan Jul 2012 #32

The NRA needs Meiko Jul 2012 #40

Agreed permatex Jul 2012 #46

A similar law pipoman Jul 2012 #86

Now that is a law I can get behind permatex Jul 2012 #87

Well put Euromutt Jul 2012 #108

if there is a minor in the house bowens43 Jul 2012 #81

Why? permatex Jul 2012 #85

What about a swimming pool? pipoman Jul 2012 #106

agree 100% DrDan Jul 2012 #111

I'll ask the same question that bowens43 refuses to answer permatex Jul 2012 #125

I see - so when the gun is not secured, there is no reason to be on the alert? gotcha DrDan Jul 2012 #128

Didn't answer the question did ya? permatex Jul 2012 #131

I did - try to reread it with a focus on understanding DrDan Jul 2012 #133

No, actually you didn't. permatex Jul 2012 #136

I grew up with Dad's rifle hanging on the bedroom wall. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #148

You are wrong, and you are losing. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #149

It was a shitty law inspired by a shitty doctor's decision to deny service. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #102

I think you missed a "shitty" Euromutt Jul 2012 #110

What makes a doctor Meiko Jul 2012 #151

When one trains to be a doctor FunkyLeprechaun Jul 2012 #178

I have seen several Meiko Jul 2012 #179

Treating gunshot wounds does NOT make them a firearms expert. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #189

Okay FunkyLeprechaun Jul 2012 #190

Surely they should be equally or more concerned about cars, right? n/t PavePusher Jul 2012 #195

not unusual for a pediatrician to ask about seat belts and swimming pools DrDan Jul 2012 #197

There's no need for the doctor to know specifically if you own a gun or not. sylvi Jul 2012 #188

But *that* wouldn't allow for moral posturing.... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #198