Gun Control & RKBA

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)

221. the fact remains

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 12:00 AM

Jul 2012

bare hands are deadly weapons. If there is a difference between size and strength, there is a disparity of force. Since the shooter was unable to outrun the attacker, it was a clear threat. The shooter tried to retreat.
Since you were not there, and don't know jack shit about the situation other than what the article says, you have no business judging the shooter's actions.
What was he supposed to do? Punch it out? If some drunken bully starts beating the shit out of someone for whatever reason, I fail to see the moral obligation to risk his life or health to satisfy your moronic sense of "civilization". I'm guessing if it were you, you would have used a weapon.

I may have used a logical fallacy, but it is a fact found in the FBI UCR.

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UPDATE: Texas EZ Trip Shooting Of Drunk [View all] GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 OP

Kung Fu classes might be cheaper DocMac Jul 2012 #1

Have you compared prices? GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #3

No. But it's good excercise too. nt DocMac Jul 2012 #7

I see you have one of those famous goalposts with wheels. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #190

A silly reply deserves a silly response. DocMac Jul 2012 #192

She had it coming, it was only "simple assault" anyway! Tejas Jul 2012 #199

I have to kill anyone that assaults me! DocMac Jul 2012 #201

Or your loved ones. Tejas Jul 2012 #240

Simple assault ends when the first blow rains down on someone. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #202

Do what you want! DocMac Jul 2012 #206

I don't carry a gun. Never have. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #211

How bout this: DocMac Jul 2012 #218

No surprise that you would turn to outright lying to support your anti-gun agenda... cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #220

Lying??? DocMac Jul 2012 #225

Yes, lying. Walking away IS defusing the situation. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #226

People walk away every day. DocMac Jul 2012 #228

And this: Oneka Jul 2012 #232

Well, if I follow your logic, DocMac Jul 2012 #234

Stand your ground laws Oneka Jul 2012 #243

As a jury member, at the end of the day... HALO141 Jul 2012 #304

based on what evidence? gejohnston Jul 2012 #222

Take off your shoe? You have obviously never dealt with real street violence. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #237

I'm addding that one to the beans, staff, bicycle tire and benjamins. n/t shadowrider Jul 2012 #241

Don't forget; "Firm voice commands to stop and firmer if needed" N/T DonP Jul 2012 #244

Dont forget the "firm voice". N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #306

You are a great example of why SYG laws are needed. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #300

I think this guy needs a psychiatrist more than anything else. DanTex Jul 2012 #5

You'll get no argument from me on that. nt DocMac Jul 2012 #8

There were TWO parties, what about the POS that chased him? Tejas Jul 2012 #9

Anyone who thinks that a drunk can't seriously injure of kill someone permatex Jul 2012 #10

ibtBDSM's Tejas Jul 2012 #14

Ain't it something? permatex Jul 2012 #18

"If he didn't have a gun............." Tejas Jul 2012 #23

Oh, but of course. permatex Jul 2012 #24

I'd rather see someone who is able handle these things without a gun. Just because you choose Hoyt Jul 2012 #152

A drunk who can be handled without killing them. Gee Hoyt, I didn't know you shadowrider Jul 2012 #155

Were you there? No. You just assume some guy with a gun is honest when he says "I was afraid." Hoyt Jul 2012 #156

You're putting words in my mouth. Nowhere on this thread have I opined on this shadowrider Jul 2012 #159

"I wasn't there, it's why I'll leave it up to the cops to decide." Wise words your interlocutor... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #177

"If, after the investigation the shooter is arrested, there must be cause." HALO141 Jul 2012 #279

What color is the sky in your world?!? HALO141 Jul 2012 #277

I once asked him what color the sky was, as usual, no answer shadowrider Jul 2012 #282

No surprise there. HALO141 Jul 2012 #293

If the shooter tried to retreat, and it appears he did. Good on him......... wandy Jul 2012 #161

Your honest opinion without throwing insults is truly appreciated. n/t shadowrider Jul 2012 #162

I had no intent to insult...... wandy Jul 2012 #164

You may have misunderstood. Peruse this thread to see insults thrown shadowrider Jul 2012 #166

continued beating is merely a rowdy drunk to you? aikoaiko Jul 2012 #17

rowdy drunk my ass gejohnston Jul 2012 #25

Yes, rowdy drunk, trying to pick fights. DanTex Jul 2012 #44

Crickets. DocMac Jul 2012 #47

After your statement of conceal carriers permatex Jul 2012 #48

You don't have to be Republican, you don't have to Tejas Jul 2012 #56

Gun ownership has nothing to do with it. DanTex Jul 2012 #59

You're not a noob so you know accusations of masturbation over guns Tejas Jul 2012 #72

Not all gunowners. Just you and the other crazies. DanTex Jul 2012 #77

This might be news to you, but Tejas Jul 2012 #80

Apparently, accusations of mental illness are acceptable now... PavePusher Jul 2012 #292

Amazing, idin't it? shadowrider Jul 2012 #296

I just like to occasionaly confirm that the limits here are different than the limits elsewhere.... PavePusher Jul 2012 #302

I rather suspect the post would have been yanked... Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #303

YES, the JURY SYSTEM HERE IS BROKEN. Tejas Jul 2012 #308

So, I'm one of the "crazies"? Tejas Jul 2012 #307

I'm finding that out permatex Jul 2012 #63

You should just put me on ignore. DanTex Jul 2012 #67

Naw permatex Jul 2012 #73

Lacking logical dialogue, I predict the personal attacks will start in Tejas Jul 2012 #74

I feel so.......... permatex Jul 2012 #81

grasping for straws already? Tejas Jul 2012 #52

LOL. Lust for bloodshed? From a guy who is celebrating this execution? DanTex Jul 2012 #55

Your solution only allows arresting the drunk after he injures innocents. Tejas Jul 2012 #66

Actually, what the progressives in this thread are saying is that... DanTex Jul 2012 #70

By your logic, LEO's are executing people in the streets. Tejas Jul 2012 #75

Hey Karnak Oneka Jul 2012 #230

You are defending the drunk guy. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #106

In the other thread, I pointed out that the referenced article was lying about that. PavePusher Jul 2012 #53

And you were wrong, like usual. DanTex Jul 2012 #61

No. I wasn't. PavePusher Jul 2012 #76

Yes. You were. DanTex Jul 2012 #83

I'm having fun permatex Jul 2012 #86

So am I! Yay us! DanTex Jul 2012 #93

Yep permatex Jul 2012 #99

You are wrong. Here, I'll lay it out for you again.... PavePusher Jul 2012 #104

Here: DanTex Jul 2012 #105

Which is not at all equal to the other statement, which was a pure invention. n/t PavePusher Jul 2012 #110

LOL. So you really can't read after all! DanTex Jul 2012 #115

I can read just fine. You are promoting lies and distortions. PavePusher Jul 2012 #129

Anyone claiming any sort of "academic credentials" HALO141 Jul 2012 #278

your reading skills suck gejohnston Jul 2012 #71

They won't be happy until Tejas Jul 2012 #78

Witnesses: DanTex Jul 2012 #89

and this witness is? gejohnston Jul 2012 #94

LOL. You guys are so desperate to vindicate the gun hero. DanTex Jul 2012 #101

Better than convicting solely because he CCW's. Tejas Jul 2012 #107

no, just seeing your bullshit for what it is gejohnston Jul 2012 #116

"William Powell" wasn't the one getting his head stomped. Tejas Jul 2012 #95

That's right. Attack that witness! Maybe he's an evil gun-grabber! DanTex Jul 2012 #102

My bad, you're right, guilty until proven innocent is much easier. Tejas Jul 2012 #112

So, have you abandoned your defense of the lie in the jpak cite? PavePusher Jul 2012 #265

yeah and sometimes drunk men beat their wives arely staircase Jul 2012 #96

The guy did leave - just like the first guy hack89 Jul 2012 #194

He wasn't trying to pick a fight, he WAS fighting. He WAS assaulting someone. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #301

Not a rowdy drunk that was singing loudly out of tune or pissing on mailboxes 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #36

When I was a rowdy drunk... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #49

How many assaults did you commit? bluedigger Jul 2012 #92

I don't know. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #120

i knew a woman who killed her "rowdy dunk" husband arely staircase Jul 2012 #88

when I was a kid gejohnston Jul 2012 #204

Offering $100 not to beat you to death is even cheaper. Tejas Jul 2012 #12

+100000000 permatex Jul 2012 #15

I'll ask again. DocMac Jul 2012 #26

Good Question: Why a hand gun, why not pepper spray?? DanTex Jul 2012 #28

Now I know that your just another typical permatex Jul 2012 #31

When you insult someone, you should really try to get your grammar right. DanTex Jul 2012 #62

I rest my case. nt permatex Jul 2012 #64

YUP, ask LEO's about pepper spray vs drugged-up perps. Tejas Jul 2012 #35

because that is what he had gejohnston Jul 2012 #37

They should carry both if anything. DocMac Jul 2012 #41

I agree permatex Jul 2012 #42

I believe you are a good person. DocMac Jul 2012 #50

Thank you permatex Jul 2012 #58

I don't support the bloodthirsty bragging language. DocMac Jul 2012 #69

I agree, but neither of us were there permatex Jul 2012 #79

I don't have any answers, permatex. DocMac Jul 2012 #97

Now here's where you lose the argument permatex Jul 2012 #103

He stood his ground at some point. DocMac Jul 2012 #109

He may very well have been still trying to get away but was unable to at that time permatex Jul 2012 #113

We'll see. HALO141 Jul 2012 #310

When he takes it before a Grand Jury, as required by Texas law, oneshooter Jul 2012 #311

When he does he will almost certainly recommend charges. HALO141 Jul 2012 #312

Why should lawful persons EVER be required to retreat in the face of criminal action? PavePusher Jul 2012 #127

correction gejohnston Jul 2012 #119

I stand corrected permatex Jul 2012 #126

Wow. Just... wow. PavePusher Jul 2012 #117

I'm having a Beavis moment. Tejas Jul 2012 #125

Republicans build prisons with glee. DocMac Jul 2012 #145

Jack Brooks built ours. Tejas Jul 2012 #147

Why would a reasonable person listen to anything you have to say... Marengo Jul 2012 #297

Onset of sudden attack is a legal qualifer for self-defense. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #133

I guess this will last forever, since you don't get it. DocMac Jul 2012 #209

Congratulations, you won the Valarie Hodges award gejohnston Jul 2012 #207

Forget the dumbass remarks! DocMac Jul 2012 #210

That would be just about all of your posts... ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #213

Ok. DocMac Jul 2012 #219

the dead person brought it on himself gejohnston Jul 2012 #223

If you are referring to the events in my life, I am satisfied with the results ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #224

Good for you. Try to keep up! DocMac Jul 2012 #227

Complex issues deserve more than sound bite answers ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #236

Can you, with 100% accuracy, and a guarantee of compensation for failure.... PavePusher Jul 2012 #246

based on the information, gejohnston Jul 2012 #216

A person used force to end a violent, potentially lethal attack on themself. PavePusher Jul 2012 #245

Oh, forgot to ask...Do you include yourself in this analysis? Marengo Jul 2012 #299

No it wouldn't. Clames Jul 2012 #68

Texas does. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #114

The drunk has all the options. PavePusher Jul 2012 #60

Use a firm voice Common Sense Party Jul 2012 #29

And if that doesn't work, show him/her you're armed with a can of beans shadowrider Jul 2012 #82

What part of "use $100 bills instead of a gun" do you not comprehend? Tejas Jul 2012 #32

Do you know how ridiculus those answers are? Very! DocMac Jul 2012 #45

About as ridiculous as Tejas Jul 2012 #84

He'll get a chance to test his fighting skills DocMac Jul 2012 #150

People die or are seriously injured by getting punched hack89 Jul 2012 #198

A single punch can end a life... Marengo Jul 2012 #298

You do know that the great majority of gunshot wounds do not result in death, yes? PavePusher Jul 2012 #57

It's called problem solving, Texas style. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #146

you did not read the article gejohnston Jul 2012 #148

I read the article and other articles. I'll go with the witnesses. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #151

I read it, and I read the original article. gejohnston Jul 2012 #157

WTF does retreating to the parking lot have to do with anything? Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #170

he could not escape with out being more exposed gejohnston Jul 2012 #180

And you know that because... DanTex Jul 2012 #182

and you know he could leave the scene because gejohnston Jul 2012 #184

YUP, witnesses do disagree, just ask Sharpton or Nifong or...oh wait. Tejas Jul 2012 #193

Uh, because it was stated in the article that he retreated? Tejas Jul 2012 #195

I don't care what the eyewitnesses said, or didn't say. MicaelS Jul 2012 #196

And you know that how? Clames Jul 2012 #231

How do you know he had a car? Sirveri Jul 2012 #233

The witness statement, "...not worth a life..." is his judgement and would not be allowed in court. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #238

You can see the flak i'm getting. DocMac Jul 2012 #149

Aren't stun-guns lethal weapons? 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #153

I'm told they are "less lethal." DocMac Jul 2012 #165

Ah, so *you are a big guy* 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #168

Now you're writing all my thoughts for me? DocMac Jul 2012 #173

I used what you wrote 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #175

I will acknowledge that. DocMac Jul 2012 #178

Alright, fair enough 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #179

I get what you are saying. DocMac Jul 2012 #181

I don't think we're really in disagreement here 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #185

No need to apologize. DocMac Jul 2012 #186

You seem to have written plenty of thoughts for others. PavePusher Jul 2012 #263

I don't have your options. At 58 with health problems, the last thing I'm going to shadowrider Jul 2012 #169

Yell for help. I would help. DocMac Jul 2012 #174

Good to know. I'll let you know my daily schedule and you can always shadowrider Jul 2012 #187

Silly replies are not helping you. DocMac Jul 2012 #188

I have very limited faith in my fellow man. No one wants to get involved shadowrider Jul 2012 #189

I'm sorry you feel that way. DocMac Jul 2012 #191

If you try your method of self-defense in a real street fight you will get your ass whipped... GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #239

Yelling for help doesn't always work either... PavePusher Jul 2012 #264

You could use Diamond Daves patented NINJA CHOP! Tejas Jul 2012 #200

It is sad, but you have to develop a thick skin around here. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #254

Have to honestly disagree gejohnston Jul 2012 #256

I wasn't referring specifically to this thread. And I don't have a side. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #271

Loud minority? Clames Jul 2012 #257

Loud minority of DUers, not Gungeoneers. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #270

how many of those DUers actually understand what SYG is? gejohnston Jul 2012 #273

Well, this is a subject where you and I have opposing takes on SYG. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #274

not clear at all gejohnston Jul 2012 #275

I don't give a rat's ass about ALEC's well being, or the NRA's, or any other right wing org. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #281

they basically are. gejohnston Jul 2012 #283

I didn't see where this was about robbery at all. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #284

I can think of worse feelings gejohnston Jul 2012 #285

That is very good advice. DocMac Jul 2012 #272

"Are you suggesting that all citizens carry...?" No-one is suggesting any such thing, of course. PavePusher Jul 2012 #266

Showing a belligerent individual who isn't thinking clearly that you have lot's of cash on hand 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #39

Lion vs CCW wrapped in bacon. Tejas Jul 2012 #43

Nah... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #122

Unlikely...and in any case probably far less effective. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #98

Well, if you can't use your hands, DocMac Jul 2012 #118

I know. Every parking lot I go to is chock full of rocks and sticks. n/t shadowrider Jul 2012 #123

perhaps for a couple of reasons gejohnston Jul 2012 #128

I actually DO consider non-lethals a viable option. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #139

from what I gather gejohnston Jul 2012 #2

What would the victim do if DocMac Jul 2012 #4

Run faster. Tejas Jul 2012 #6

That's one. DocMac Jul 2012 #11

I'm 64 yo permatex Jul 2012 #13

Pepper spray. nt DocMac Jul 2012 #27

Pepper spray doesn't always work permatex Jul 2012 #30

Will you agree to carry both? DocMac Jul 2012 #33

I already carry a small container of pepper spray permatex Jul 2012 #38

Victim gettin his a*s whipped (conversation) shadowrider Jul 2012 #85

On TV, the wind always blows in the right direction. Tejas Jul 2012 #87

Is that part of your comedy routine? nt DocMac Jul 2012 #100

Better than the foolish fantasies. Tejas Jul 2012 #111

Will you never give any ground on this issue? DocMac Jul 2012 #140

Won't you? shadowrider Jul 2012 #141

Maybe it's because I don't watch television so Tejas Jul 2012 #142

You forgot to tell him to have plenty of Benjamins to hand out in case shadowrider Jul 2012 #143

Throw a few on the ground and make like Forrest Gump! Tejas Jul 2012 #144

Lol! Now that isn't a bad option. DocMac Jul 2012 #158

Not to be a PITA sarisataka Jul 2012 #163

Probably. But if a gun is all you have, DocMac Jul 2012 #167

True if your only tool is a hammer sarisataka Jul 2012 #172

If a guy jumps in front of you with a knife, DocMac Jul 2012 #176

Effective your view of what is appropriate is very dependent on the victim ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #212

"...a fist fight doesn't deserve deadly force." PavePusher Jul 2012 #248

"But if a gun is all you have, lethal force is all you have." PavePusher Jul 2012 #247

depending on size an muscular strength gejohnston Jul 2012 #16

I'm sorry GE permatex Jul 2012 #19

I think some here actually want a CCP to get his skull cracked open Tejas Jul 2012 #21

That's my take on it also permatex Jul 2012 #22

You're relatively new to this forum but I must admit shadowrider Jul 2012 #90

It isn't our (CCWers) fault if you choose to limit your options. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #136

Good shoot Tejas Jul 2012 #20

And yet, somehow, the first attacked customer survived his or her brutal beating... enki23 Jul 2012 #34

"excessively gun-loving sorts" - Diane, is that you? Tejas Jul 2012 #40

did you read the article? gejohnston Jul 2012 #46

I can't possibly take anyone seriously when they write something like what you did. enki23 Jul 2012 #217

the fact remains gejohnston Jul 2012 #221

1. What evidence do you have that the attacks were of the same level and ferocity? PavePusher Jul 2012 #65

Screw this topic. dtom67 Jul 2012 #51

as long as Threads like this one: Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2012 #54

So you don't think that gun control or abortion rights are worth fighting for? DanTex Jul 2012 #108

WTF? Are you that ignorant? RW masturbates to gun control. Tejas Jul 2012 #121

After reading his posts on this thread, you actually thought that? n/t shadowrider Jul 2012 #124

I was trying to give the poster SOME benefit of the doubt. Tejas Jul 2012 #131

I think he's losing it permatex Jul 2012 #132

Apparently he's never heard of Ronald Reagan. Tejas Jul 2012 #135

LOL. Yes, gun control is so very popular with right-wingers! DanTex Jul 2012 #130

Ronald Reagan>Mulford Act (FYI - Reagan was RW) Tejas Jul 2012 #134

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, in 2012... DanTex Jul 2012 #137

The NRA that endorses Democratic candidates? Tejas Jul 2012 #138

Then, why is NRA out to defeat Obama? Hoyt Jul 2012 #154

Why do you let the NRA scare you so much? Tejas Jul 2012 #197

Gun control? Of course not ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #214

Maybe a law against public intoxication would prevent........ Tejas Jul 2012 #91

And a law against punching people, while we're at it. jeepnstein Jul 2012 #160

This is why SYG is spreading sarisataka Jul 2012 #171

YUP, violent drunks need to take notice. Tejas Jul 2012 #203

This thread needs some Canadian love. ileus Jul 2012 #183

She just LOVES Texas law (Hale v Tavai) Tejas Jul 2012 #205

*snork* ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #242

When I was a young man Meiko Jul 2012 #208

When I was younger I followed much the same course ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #215

Maybe I Could Dance With Them Until They Drop AndyTiedye Jul 2012 #309

"the attacker made a bad life decision and will suffer the consequences of his actions." geckosfeet Jul 2012 #251

I understand that Meiko Jul 2012 #261

self defense backwoodsbob Jul 2012 #229

Yep Meiko Jul 2012 #235

Hey, that's a point that was overlooked all through this thread.... PavePusher Jul 2012 #249

At least 5 or 6 Meiko Jul 2012 #250

I would have had the clerk call a cop. orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #252

That makes sense Meiko Jul 2012 #253

Yes ,that would be the sane way to curb violence. orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #259

And the guy gets to beat on you for five minutes until the cops get there. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #255

I don't that's why I'd have him Legally orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #258

and if the beating victim dies or requires a long stay in the hospital, gejohnston Jul 2012 #260

No shoot anyone for anything orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #286

Wow! Meiko Jul 2012 #262

Is there anyway of defending your-self and my raped wife orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #287

You didn't answer my question but that's OK Meiko Jul 2012 #294

As long as that is YOUR choice, MicaelS Jul 2012 #267

Not at all ,My opinion ,or you choice orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #288

That's your choice. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #268

Would never presume to mke that choice for orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #289

Not me. I will defend myself. GreenStormCloud Jul 2012 #305

Please Mr. Drunk Asshole, Spoonman Jul 2012 #269

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #290

Shares? Is that you? We missed you, man! n/t PavePusher Jul 2012 #291

Naah, that gem was sub-Shares... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #295

If there was no stand your ground law what would have happened? Does having a gun present upaloopa Jul 2012 #276

Real Life(tm) is not that binary. PavePusher Jul 2012 #280