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In reply to the discussion: Please post reasons why it is OK to kill people in defense of property. [View all]MicaelS
(8,747 posts)42. Wrong, it is not "playing" at anything
In Texas, Deadly Force may be used in Protection of Property. Read the Statues very carefully, it does not say anything about the person who is committing the theft, robbery, burglary, etc being armed.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm
PENAL CODE
TITLE 2. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY
CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY
SUBCHAPTER D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY
Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.
Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.
Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.
Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.
TITLE 2. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY
CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY
SUBCHAPTER D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY
Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.
Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.
Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.
Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.
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Please post reasons why it is OK to kill people in defense of property. [View all]
digonswine
Dec 2011
OP
You could sell a few of your guns instead of shooting an unarmed man rummaging through carport.
Hoyt
Dec 2011
#22
One-eyed, the world is not out to get you. Put your guns down for a week and enjoy life.
Hoyt
Dec 2011
#120
Actually, I'm suggesting it sounds like Newt saying 5 year olds can clean bathrooms.
Hoyt
Dec 2011
#132
The decision whether to shoot, or even the ability shoot another person is very situational
ProgressiveProfessor
Dec 2011
#15
If someone is on my property without my permission and/or has come into my house uninvited
Tuesday Afternoon
Dec 2011
#9
If you have $100K worth of tools, I think I'd buy some insurance -- and not an S&W.
Hoyt
Dec 2011
#23
He also seems to assume that insurance will always fully replace ones' losses.
PavePusher
Dec 2011
#25
Oh, so it's OK to shoot unarmed person as soon as you calculate potential insurance coverage?
Hoyt
Dec 2011
#100
I have a friend with well over 100k in tools....he has plenty of S&W's, alarm and video monitoring.
ileus
Dec 2011
#89
Now that's the kind of gun owner I grew up with -- and helped me realize we gotta problem.
Hoyt
Dec 2011
#102
In Ohio, if an home or occupied vehicle is broken into then justified self defense is presumed.
OneTenthofOnePercent
Dec 2011
#34
I would say that some form of agression is required on the part of the robber.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
Dec 2011
#44
My opinion is that it is not OK to shoot people in defense of property...Period. n/t
Bonhomme Richard
Dec 2011
#31
There is at least one state, TX, that makes provisions for using lethal force to stop prop. crimes
aikoaiko
Dec 2011
#32
Premise appears generally flawed in that the victim will have zero idea...
LanternWaste
Dec 2011
#46
I have no duty to wait until I am attacked before taking action to defend my health and property.
PavePusher
Dec 2011
#59
I have been giving a lot of thought to this thread since I posted last
Tuesday Afternoon
Dec 2011
#87
My police department is 3 minutes down the road... so I'd guess 5-10 mins.
OneTenthofOnePercent
Dec 2011
#88
When I called about my last two vehicle break-ins in my driveway, the police never came.
PavePusher
Dec 2011
#91
Apparently there is a policy that they have to show up for stolen firearms. (Tucson, AZ)
PavePusher
Dec 2011
#96
If the property is replaceable, regardless of cost, then killing for it is rarely justified.
Starboard Tack
Dec 2011
#68
No, at that point he is no longer a danger to you. If you shoot then YOU are in the wrong.
oneshooter
Dec 2011
#98
My home is a physical manifestation of the portion of my life that I have spent working
slackmaster
Dec 2011
#81
Only way that would work is if the criminal was nice enough to leave a warning note.
Clames
Jul 2012
#148