Gun Control & RKBA

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)

137. Non sequitur (it does not follow).

Mon Jan 2, 2012, 01:54 PM

Jan 2012

Care to explain your *cough* logic?

[div class='excerpt']In the US there are 400,000 residential fires every year, and there are ~105,000,000 homes. Odds of a home fire? 1 in 263.

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Fire-Prevention/fires-factsheet.html

According to the DOJ, the rate of being the victim of a violent crime is 20 / 1,000 overall (as high as 27 / 1,000 for some groups like african americans.) That comes out to 1 in 50.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=1743

Considering that your odds of being a victim of violent crime is higher than having a house fire, I would assert that having a tool to address violent crime is more rational than fire extinguishers.

As far as your claim about 'every time they leave home, regardless of where they are going' - what "logic" leads you to believe that you can predict where or when you will encounter crime? My crystal ball is on the fritz. If I thought visiting a certain location were likely to increase my odds of encountering violent crime, I'd avoid that place. (And I do.) It's the times and locations I can't predict for which I carry.

Are you under the mistaken impression that there are places where crime doesn't happen?

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Guns in Public, and Out of Sight [View all] alp227 Dec 2011 OP

So refreshing and reassuring to know only the good guys carry guns, isn't it? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #1

the suicides would have happened anyway gejohnston Dec 2011 #3

Oh, come on GE Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #5

I accept the National Academy of Science gejohnston Dec 2011 #10

I wonder if there should be a limit as to how many times the same false... DanTex Dec 2011 #41

I wonder if there should be a limit as to how many times the false gejohnston Dec 2011 #44

I wonder... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2011 #45

No, it's refreshing to know that not ONLY the bad guys can carry guns. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #23

Thank you for the confirmation of all my points. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #27

Thanks for ignoring all of mine. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #31

Which ones did I ignore? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #34

These: Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #36

OK if you really want my responses Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #39

Why it is refreshing. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #40

Only three choices? That explains a lot. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #46

Judo is a physical contest of strength. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #48

I guess you don't know much about Judo and Jujitsu Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #52

Have you ever trained in the martial arts? rrneck Dec 2011 #53

Studied some Judo at police college and later I did some Karate training. No belts or special PJs. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #55

The point is rrneck Dec 2011 #57

I disagree. I've never trained in a dojo. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #60

Nope. rrneck Dec 2011 #62

Nah, thugs are the laziest. That's why they are thugs. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #66

It didn't take you long to condradict yourself. rrneck Dec 2011 #68

I see you still have your sense of humor Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #76

So which is it? rrneck Dec 2011 #78

Training for a black belt is difficult. Takes dedication, determination and time. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #80

Bullshit. rrneck Dec 2011 #82

No bullshit, I'm relating real life experience. Nothing Hollywood about it. No contradictions. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #86

Just because you may have seen it rrneck Dec 2011 #88

Whoa! I'm not talking public policy, but personal choices. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #90

The bigger they come the harder they hit. rrneck Dec 2011 #91

I agree 100% with every word. How about that? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #92

Holy fuck! rrneck Dec 2011 #95

For the first time, we are in agreement! n/t DWC Dec 2011 #104

This message was self-deleted by its author rrneck Dec 2011 #67

If you believe that..... We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #181

Nothing is 100% guaranteed to work in a SD situation. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #182

Actually, I know a fair amount about Judo. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #54

I'm not denying that a gun is more effective than a martial art. So is a bomb. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #58

Wrong rrneck Dec 2011 #61

I respectfully disagree. Have a great 2012 :toast: Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #74

So we are back again to this: Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #69

"That's why police officers carry firearms." Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #73

I think you are stretching. Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #180

What if there is more than one assailant? nt hack89 Dec 2011 #71

What if there's a whole army? Sometimes you're just fucked Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #72

Then there are likely situations where a gun is the best answer. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #75

I doubt they are likely. I doubt any situation is likely. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #77

You misread the post. ManiacJoe Dec 2011 #79

He said "Then there are likely situations where a gun is the best answer" Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #81

I take that sentence to mean that it is likely such situations exist, not petronius Dec 2011 #89

Then, he should have said Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #94

His construction was fine; in your rush to disagree, you simply misread it petronius Dec 2011 #99

Mistake, moi? No, no, no. His construction was not OK Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #100

So people never get attacked by two or more people at the same time? hack89 Dec 2011 #83

There is a big difference between "never" and "likely" Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #84

So the odds are somewhere between likely and never. hack89 Dec 2011 #85

That was always my position Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #87

So we simply leave it up to each person whether to carry or not hack89 Dec 2011 #93

Of course, it should be an individual choice. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #102

I used my gun once hack89 Dec 2011 #96

No I acknowledge that. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #97

But I had to escalate hack89 Dec 2011 #98

Well, it could be said that your car was at their mercy Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #101

No - they approached me when I asked them to leave my car alone. hack89 Dec 2011 #103

Hold on there. Me give criminals a free reign? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #106

Disarm the criminals first then we can discuss my guns. hack89 Dec 2011 #107

I don't want to disarm anyone, not even the criminals. I definitely don't want to discuss your guns. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #109

But since those people who legally carry in public represent no real threat to you hack89 Dec 2011 #110

I'll decide what I concentrate on, thank you Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #111

None of your post disproves that strength and fitness is required. n/t PavePusher Dec 2011 #112

I'm not trying to disprove anything Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #113

May I ask what your actual martial arts experience level is? PavePusher Jan 2012 #114

I don't need to carry a spare tire on my person..... PavePusher Jan 2012 #115

LOL The old fire extinguisher is like a gun phallacy. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #116

I wasn't making a comparisom, I was debunking your attempt to. PavePusher Jan 2012 #117

Ah, yes, a pint of Boddies would go down very nicely. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #118

Yet you've never directly addressed it.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #119

Addressed it? Are you serious? It's an absurd analogy. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #120

Another BS dodge. (As I expected.) n/t X_Digger Jan 2012 #127

Where is the dodge? Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #128

You can't even accept the question, can you? X_Digger Jan 2012 #130

OK. Let's see. Easy questions. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #134

It is simply inconcievable to you, isn't it... beevul Jan 2012 #135

And that script will probably continue to be played out. Nothing new about your response. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #136

Kindly keep your words out of my mouth, thanks. beevul Jan 2012 #148

OK, you don't carry a gun Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #149

Yes, it is my decision. beevul Jan 2012 #150

Well, you are wrong, I agree with you. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #162

Do you now? beevul Jan 2012 #165

Patience. Let them speak for themselves. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #167

Its nobodys job to back up your claims except yours. N/T beevul Jan 2012 #169

Non sequitur (it does not follow). X_Digger Jan 2012 #137

Crime occurs in most places where there are people. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #139

So your whines about 'everywhere they go' is specious. X_Digger Jan 2012 #140

"whines"? Pointing out absurdity is whining? Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #141

You've given no logical response that would lead one to 'absurd'. X_Digger Jan 2012 #142

Sanity is not about winning. I'm not in a contest. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #147

Sanity is also not about repeating an unproven assertion, in the hopes it becomes accepted truth. beevul Jan 2012 #151

I don't know Beevul. What do you think? Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #159

And you're doing it again. beevul Jan 2012 #161

'compulsive behavior'?!? By what measure, backed up by the DSM? X_Digger Jan 2012 #157

Are you OK leaving home without your gun? Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #160

Who has done that? beevul Jan 2012 #163

You know I can't do that as it would be a call out. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #164

*snork* beevul Jan 2012 #168

If you hadn't noticed, I posted a new thread Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #170

What do you mean "own up"? nt rrneck Jan 2012 #178

Link to a thread, rather than a single post. X_Digger Jan 2012 #171

If I'm wrong I'll be delighted Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #172

Correct, you don't need to back up your assertions. X_Digger Jan 2012 #177

Which assertions do I need to back up? Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #186

"those who have stated that they will go nowhere without being armed." X_Digger Jan 2012 #187

I do it all the time. Just log in and use the search function. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #179

'Compulsively' has a meaning, ya know. X_Digger Jan 2012 #166

Mental illness? WTF are you talking about? Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #173

Nice dodge. X_Digger Jan 2012 #176

That would appear to be a thinly veiled personal attack. beevul Jan 2012 #154

"But I won't alert, because posts and themes like it Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #156

"That would appear to be a thinly veiled personal attack" Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #174

Goof grief do I really have to spell it out? beevul Jan 2012 #175

Again with the silly "guns are designed to injure or kill humans"........... Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #129

You may delude yourself all you like. Doesn't change the facts. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #133

Why am I not surprised that you dodge again? Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #143

No dodges. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #146

"You were in a spot that you put yourself in to start with." Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #152

It's so refreshing and reassuring to know only the good guys use laptops, isn't it? SteveW Dec 2011 #30

What do laptops and carry permits have to do with anything? Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #35

Uh, like the good, bad and the ugly use just about everything you use?... SteveW Dec 2011 #37

I don't want to expand NICS or any other testing, except individual reality testing Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #38

Why don't you want to expand NICS? What were Bloomie's whiny videos about if not that? friendly_iconoclast Dec 2011 #42

I prefer self control to government control. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #47

"Don't you see how extremists always fuck things up for everyone else?" ellisonz Jan 2012 #121

How would you go about that? Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #123

I'm going to... ellisonz Jan 2012 #124

Then DO something. Support President Obama's proposals, for starters: friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #125

It's not my lobby standing in the way of that. ellisonz Jan 2012 #126

Missed the reference to MAIG and the VPC, I take it? friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #131

You crack me up sometimes... ellisonz Jan 2012 #132

Can't help it- I took your claim to want effective gun control at face value. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #138

Who gets to make that choice? Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #49

Well, that's my point. Thanks again. Individuals make the choice. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #51

Individuals make the choice - as long as government doesn't get in the way. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #56

So the whole "gun show loophole" is really a fiction to you? SteveW Dec 2011 #59

No it isn't a fiction. More of a red herring. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #63

Your choices are irrelevent to me... SteveW Dec 2011 #64

"What makes you so special that these violent criminal pose a threat to you." Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #144

What do you mean by "prescious"? I'm not familiar with that word. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #145

Good job catching a misspelling. Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #155

Again, I'm not in this for wins or losses. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #158

"Gun crime is a direct consequence of gun proliferation." Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #153

Sounds like you are agreeing with me Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #183

The number of guns in the US has risen, while gun violence has declined. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #184

Look at the last 20 years.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #185

No one said they were nonexistant gejohnston Dec 2011 #2

A seemingly important part of the quoted story: ManiacJoe Dec 2011 #4

Really good argument for more user fees to pay for background checks and record maintenance... ellisonz Dec 2011 #6

did the state tell the county? gejohnston Dec 2011 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author ellisonz Dec 2011 #11

No, he's CALLING for due diligence. Straw Man Dec 2011 #12

You're right. I misread amid the sloppy grammar. ellisonz Dec 2011 #13

Looks like this is the problem safeinOhio Dec 2011 #14

Can we have this "user tax" on voting and publishing too? PavePusher Dec 2011 #15

We already have it. safeinOhio Dec 2011 #17

So we should have fees required to carry a book or speak in public, and to vote. PavePusher Dec 2011 #20

Yep. If we need to worry about some idiot safeinOhio Dec 2011 #24

Ummm, strawman, much? PavePusher Dec 2011 #25

If you spot it, safeinOhio Dec 2011 #26

You're my new favorite practicer of the absurd. ellisonz Jan 2012 #122

Paying for the paperwork DissedByBush Dec 2011 #22

Or a good argument for just doing away with the requirement altogether. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #28

No, not a good argument. Here's why... SteveW Dec 2011 #32

Sounds like N.C. may have a communication problem between law enforcement.... PavePusher Dec 2011 #7

The only accurate comparison would be safeinOhio Dec 2011 #16

Why exclude non-qualifiers? Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #29

The article admits that there are crimes prevented by those who legally carry concealed... spin Dec 2011 #9

Hard for NYT "to track [gun self-defense] episodes." Esp. if they neither try... SteveW Dec 2011 #65

Yeah, 'cause a guy who'd shoot a man in the back would NEVER Union Scribe Dec 2011 #18

Sounds like an argument for open carry. ileus Dec 2011 #19

NYT had to go back two years to find a supporting story? JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2011 #21

This is the NYT's warm place to relieve itself of solid waste... SteveW Dec 2011 #33

"All the news that fits" discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2011 #43

There's Always Fox "News"........ (n/t) Paladin Dec 2011 #105

Gosh, Paladin, do you watch that stuff? I don't. nt SteveW Dec 2011 #108

clear your cookies if you hit a paywall since NY Times gives 20 free articles per session alp227 Dec 2011 #70

An out of state permitted person would still have to follow all the laws of the other state. aikoaiko Dec 2011 #50