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gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
103. very simple
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 05:46 PM
Aug 2012

the phrase is "slippery slope" it is also called people not appreciating being scapegoated for problems they don't contribute to.

It is also a matter of what right wing Neo-Con Charles Krauthammer explained in his WP op-ed. It is a culture war, where many right wingers (like the guy that played Rambo in the movies and Mr. Krauthammer are on the same side as Sarah Brady)
"Disarm the Citizenry. But not yet. " Washington Post, Apr. 5, 1996

In an election year you expect Washington to be full of phony arguments. But even a cynic must marvel at the all-round phoniness of the debate over repeal of the assault weapons ban. Both sides are blowing smoke.

The claim of the advocates that banning these 19 types of "assault weapons" will reduce the crime rate is laughable. (The term itself is priceless: What are all the other guns in America's home arsenal? Encounter weapons? Crime-en\abling devices?) Dozens of other weapons, the functional equivalent of these "assault weapons," were left off the list and are perfect substitutes for anyone bent on mayhem.

On the other side you have Rep. Gerald Solomon (R-N.Y.) demanding in trembling fury that the ban be repealed because his wife, alone in upstate New York, needs protection. Well, okay. But must it be an AK-47? Does, say, a .44 magnum -- easier to carry, by the way -- not suffice for issuing a credible, "Go ahead, make my day"?
In fact, the assault weapons ban will have no significant effect either on the crime rate or on personal security. Nonetheless, it is a good idea, though for reasons its proponents dare not enunciate. I am not up for reelection. So let me elaborate the real logic of the ban:

It is simply crazy for a country as modern, industrial, advanced and now crowded as the United States to carry on its frontier infatuation with guns. Yes, we are a young country, but the frontier has been closed for 100 years. In 1992, there were 13,220 handgun murders in the United States. Canada (an equally young country, one might note) had 128; Britain, 33.

Ultimately, a civilized society must disarm its citizenry if it is to have a modicum of domestic tranquillity of the kind enjoyed in sister democracies like Canada and Britain. Given the frontier history and individualist ideology of the United States, however, this will not come easily. It certainly cannot be done radically. It will probably take one, maybe two generations. It might be 50 years before the United States gets to where Britain is today.

Passing a law like the assault weapons ban is a symbolic -- purely symbolic -- move in that direction. Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation. Its purpose is to spark debate, highlight the issue, make the case that the arms race between criminals and citizens is as dangerous as it is pointless.

De-escalation begins with a change in mentality. And that change in mentality starts with the symbolic yielding of certain types of weapons. The real steps, like the banning of handguns, will never occur unless this one is taken first, and even then not for decades.

What needs to happen before this change in mentality can occur? What must occur first -- and this is where liberals are fighting the gun control issue from the wrong end -- is a decrease in crime. So long as crime is ubiquitous, so long as Americans cannot entrust their personal safety to the authorities, they will never agree to disarm. There will be no gun control before there is real crime control.

True, part of the reason for the high crime rate is the ubiquity of guns -- which makes the argument circular and a solution seem impossible. But gun control advocates ignore other, egregious encouragements to crime at their peril. The lack of swift and certain retribution, for example. Judges like Harold Baer in New York, for whom four men loading $4 million worth of drugs into the trunk of a car at 5 in the morning, then running away from police, is insufficient cause for a search. Judg\es who need the president himself to yell and scream and threaten before reversing a decision to let serious criminality go unprosecuted.

In the United States, 4 (!) percent of all robberies result in time served. Tell your stickup man, "You can go to jail for this," and he can correctly respond, "25 to 1 says I don't." So long as both the law-abiding population and the criminal classes doubt that serious crime leads to serious punishment, attempts at serious gun control will prove futile.
In fact, the assault weapons ban will have no significant effect either on the crime rate or on personal security. Nonetheless, it is a good idea, though for reasons its proponents dare not enunciate. I am not up for reelection. So let me elaborate the real logic of the ban:

It is simply crazy for a country as modern, industrial, advanced and now crowded as the United States to carry on its frontier infatuation with guns. Yes, we are a young country, but the frontier has been closed for 100 years. In 1992, there were 13,220 handgun murders in the United States. Canada (an equally young country, one mi
Yes, Sarah Brady is doing God's work. Yes, in the end America must follow the way of other democracies and disarm. But there is not the slightest chance that it will occur until liberals join in the other fights to reduce the incidence of and increase the penalties for crime. Only then will there be a public receptive to the idea of real gun control. The passionate resistance to even the phony gun control of the assault weapons ban shows how far we have to go.
BTW, Canada is almost as "heavily armed" as the US, so I guess his knowledge of his home country is ummmmmmmm debatable.


Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

That Pesky Assault Rifle Ban [View all] rDigital Aug 2012 OP
Dude, scary rifles that have a shoulder thing that goes up shadowrider Aug 2012 #1
and they fire those gejohnston Aug 2012 #2
Isn't bayonet death #3 in U.S death statistics? Or is that M203 launched grenades? braddy Aug 2012 #3
Ummm.....no.... rDigital Aug 2012 #4
Who won the Alien vs Predator bout, anyway? leveymg Aug 2012 #78
One on one, the predator always wins. rDigital Aug 2012 #83
Not against Schwartzenegger, if I recall. leveymg Aug 2012 #93
IMHO... discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #100
If looks could kill . . . she wins hands-down. leveymg Aug 2012 #104
Black markets and supply/demand economics 101 Ya Basta Aug 2012 #5
Maybe so, until we change society's view of those who covet and carry lethal weapons. Hoyt Aug 2012 #7
Does that include the police and military? Ya Basta Aug 2012 #12
Why does every newbee gun lover ask that same stupid question? Hoyt Aug 2012 #13
Maybe because its a relevant question in response to your ridiculous statement. Ya Basta Aug 2012 #16
Probably because you never answer it. n/t PavePusher Aug 2012 #39
We've all read 'Rules for Radicals' and ridicule isn't an answer on DU. rDigital Aug 2012 #47
Simple, police, etc., have close government oversight and are regulated better than gun crowd. Hoyt Aug 2012 #48
Please, tell me more of my opinions! Glaug-Eldare Aug 2012 #49
Please correct me where I am wrong. Hoyt Aug 2012 #50
One thing you repeat incessantly Glaug-Eldare Aug 2012 #51
Talk to NRA leadership like Grover Norquist who restricts funds for mental health, yet allows easy Hoyt Aug 2012 #58
I have never seen anything concerning norquist or his ability to restrict rl6214 Aug 2012 #73
You can't be that dense. Because of Norquist's hold on Republicans regarding tax increases Hoyt Aug 2012 #75
talk about being dense rl6214 Aug 2012 #96
You can't regulate or legislate morality. rDigital Aug 2012 #54
Woo Bum-kon was his name. Ashgrey77 Aug 2012 #57
I really don't care, "pal," what right wing gun crowd thinks. Hoyt Aug 2012 #59
Cool non-sequitur, bro. Cool false dilemma, bro. NT rDigital Aug 2012 #63
NRA Talking Point #14 bongbong Aug 2012 #31
Debunked by who? Glaug-Eldare Aug 2012 #32
Calling something a "talking point" is not a rebuttal. GreenStormCloud Aug 2012 #60
The NRA does oppose new gun laws such as another "assault weapons" ban ... spin Aug 2012 #64
You won't get an answer from that one because you provide a fact based rl6214 Aug 2012 #74
I've found by posting on DU in the Gungeon ... spin Aug 2012 #80
Talk about "tired and debunked." HALO141 Aug 2012 #82
It's easy to debunk a straw man Euromutt Sep 2012 #108
There was never any intention of stopping with the AWB 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #6
Yea, those damn bush Republicans were always looking out for what is best for society. Hoyt Aug 2012 #8
If you say so, gejohnston Aug 2012 #10
LMAO HALO141 Aug 2012 #84
If it is cosmetic, why do so many sick right wingers love them? Hoyt Aug 2012 #9
Gee, I dunno Glaug-Eldare Aug 2012 #11
"Pretty clothes" aren't the same as pretty/sexy lethal weapons you guys love. Hoyt Aug 2012 #14
So much fail Ya Basta Aug 2012 #17
I like my AR-15 because it is lightweight, accurate, and reliable. Travis_0004 Aug 2012 #19
If it keeps such guns out of circulation, restrictions are worth it. Hoyt Aug 2012 #20
none of those examples would be illegal conversions gejohnston Aug 2012 #21
Law and its observance isn't inherently good. Pacafishmate Aug 2012 #22
"thinking critically?"- Is that what you call strapping a gun on before venturing into public? Hoyt Aug 2012 #28
Wait, what's this thread about? Glaug-Eldare Aug 2012 #30
I suspect most folks into such guns have carried, permitted or not. Hoyt Aug 2012 #33
I had carried before ohio passed it's CCW laws... so what? OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #36
And Freepers suspect most Muslims are terrorists Glaug-Eldare Aug 2012 #41
So says the gun haters, criminals and black market Ya Basta Aug 2012 #24
Sorry, guns are not the same as real Civil Rights. Hoyt Aug 2012 #29
Sorry, but the 2nd Amendment is a civil right Mr. Movinggoalposts. ;) Ashgrey77 Aug 2012 #68
Thank you for your contribution. Everyone here should have a voice on this subject. Nt rDigital Aug 2012 #106
You are.... PavePusher Aug 2012 #40
So because I own a gun, I'm a criminal, and would likely convert it to an illegal gun? Travis_0004 Aug 2012 #44
ARs don't really appeal to me, but there's no accounting for taste. Glaug-Eldare Aug 2012 #25
If you can't see the beauty in these, you are a lost cause. oneshooter Aug 2012 #94
Fashions change. In the 1950's the fashion was to sporterize military rifles. GreenStormCloud Aug 2012 #15
Gun haute couture. Now that is funny. Sick, but funny. Hoyt Aug 2012 #18
He who is without sin should cast the first stone. Pacafishmate Aug 2012 #23
I think we need to change image of today's gun culture. Hoyt Aug 2012 #27
Today's gun culture is not the same as you imagine the gun culture is rl6214 Aug 2012 #81
Speaking of shortcomings.... virginia mountainman Aug 2012 #34
lol... (n/t) OneTenthofOnePercent Aug 2012 #37
You've got to be kidding me? This is comedy gold. nt rDigital Aug 2012 #45
If you liked that one, check out his advocacy of vigilantism: friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #67
Well, that's interesting twizzler Aug 2012 #92
exactly... I try and explain that to non-gun people all the time belcffub Aug 2012 #97
Are you Bill Frist? It's been a while since I read a long-distance diagnosis... spayneuter Aug 2012 #69
You mean you don't know? HALO141 Aug 2012 #85
I think the answer is more basic - love of guns capable of intimidating and killing lots of people. Hoyt Aug 2012 #86
Intimidating who, exactly? HALO141 Aug 2012 #87
By that logic spoilers on sedans must be functional 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #99
Just ban all fucking guns. Works for me. MotherPetrie Aug 2012 #26
Just ban all fucking crime. Works for me. Marinedem Aug 2012 #38
Except, of course, for weapons in the hands of government employees slackmaster Aug 2012 #62
You might consider moving to Jamaica where they did just that. You might even be able to escape the spayneuter Aug 2012 #70
I would as well, if my guns ever fucked anything. AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #89
Not GUNna happen. HALO141 Aug 2012 #90
Great Post, and it really lays the truth of just how silly that law was..NT virginia mountainman Aug 2012 #35
To be fair.... PavePusher Aug 2012 #42
Yes, folks need an ergonomic, portable, concealable, rapid fire, hi capacity lethal weapon to enjoy. Hoyt Aug 2012 #77
I'm assuming you believed you said something meaningful or relevent there... PavePusher Aug 2012 #79
Yeah......but it made people feel better...and we want happy people....right? ileus Aug 2012 #43
They want people to think they legitimately care about their safety. rDigital Aug 2012 #46
Good post. Let's go for the gold and at the very least get the "B" taken out of 2A Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #52
The B? gejohnston Aug 2012 #53
No they are not (kinda in between), but what does that have to do with the "B"? Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #55
perhaps but gejohnston Aug 2012 #56
They should. Wales too. It's a democracy. If they want it, they'll get it. Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #65
Texas? gejohnston Aug 2012 #66
There are lots of cool people everywhere, even England. Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #72
Talk is cheap. Clames Aug 2012 #71
Not to cast asparagus on anyone, but there are a lot of new people with 2-digit post counts today slackmaster Aug 2012 #61
Some good points. So, ban semi-autos and detachable clips, already. leveymg Aug 2012 #76
This would be functionally impossible discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #88
A ban on Jenoch Aug 2012 #91
The M1 uses a "en-block" clip. It automaticly"detaches" at the last shot. oneshooter Aug 2012 #95
If you will note Jenoch Aug 2012 #98
So if this Clinton era legislation was as meaningless thucythucy Aug 2012 #101
It was rDigital Aug 2012 #102
very simple gejohnston Aug 2012 #103
It's interesting that many of the same people thucythucy Aug 2012 #105
The Patriot Act is one of the slimiest anti-4th amendment pieces of legislation in U.S. history. nt rDigital Sep 2012 #107
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