Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

wolfman24

(17 posts)
42. Good Question
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 09:46 AM
Aug 2012

Hello

First I would like to say something about myself. I am not a liberal but a moderate. I have been hunting since I was 8 years old and have been around guns my whole life. The only guns I have ever owned were legitimate hunting guns like shotguns and 22 rifles. I believe that there are people in this country who should have the right to own guns. Hunters who are willing to use only shotguns and certain types of single action rifles are one. The next group would be people who live in remote areas and need to hunt to live. The next group would be people who live in states which have very large counties with few law enforcement (ex. theres a county in Montana the size of Conneticut that only has 4 county sheriffs.) Those people who live in these types of counties who want to have guns for protection should be evaluated given basic police training and then allowed to have specific types of guns. Police officers and law enforcement agents would be another. There might be others but I can't think of any.

The idea of "if we outlaw guns only outlaws would have guns" seems on the surface a ridiculous idea. But if all we do is outlaw guns (specifically hand guns and semi or automatics) we will not keep outlaws from having guns. If you have ever watched "Lord of War" you know what I am talking about. But if we stop producing weapons like the ones I have mentioned and inflict severe penalties on the importation of such weapons and perhaps on the countries that do it that would help. This would include making it a capital offense to import or aide in the import of such weapons that would help. However there would still be a large black market out there. So in reality there will always be a way to get guns if you really want. But my point is the less available we can make guns the fewer (ever if its just a little) there would be.

The other reality is that this is all really academic The NRA and its brainwashed mobs will never change their minds and the conservative religious and political types will never abandon a large portion of their base. The only way anything like this would happen is if the Supreme Court got some backbone and ruled in favor of gun control in a high profile case. That could be a crack in the dam especially if this case included testimony from a high ranking member of the NRA like in the tobacco case. Then the gun control lawyers could go to work chipping at the brick wall we are all now facing. But I do not expect that in my lifetime.

The whole idea of gun ownership using the 2nd Amendment as a guide is based on the collectivism (if there is such a word) aspect of citizenship. Kennedy said "ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country". That is the essence of collectivism. We are all citizens. We have a vested interest in what happens in this country and how. The 2nd Amendment gives citizens collectively the chance to do something for their country by being part of a citizen militia. Switzerland has such a militia today. The NRA would have us believe we are still in the wild west and it is the duty of every citizen to take the law into their own hands (individualistic approach to the 2nd Amendment).

I realize that I am unlikely to get seriously flamed in this website as I have on others but if your going to for God's sake use facts and not hyperboly

Thanks

Wolfman24

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

If you repeat an NRA talking point 100 times, will it suddenly become true? DanTex Aug 2012 #1
The numbers speak for themselves, sweetie. rDigital Aug 2012 #2
I thought the entire point Reasonable_Argument Aug 2012 #3
Facts are facts regardless of who points them out. spayneuter Aug 2012 #5
If you repeat 100 times that everything you don't agree with is an NRA Talking point CokeMachine Aug 2012 #6
How do you know those are NRA "talking points" Remmah2 Aug 2012 #8
I'm sure a member of the NRA leadership... discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #14
What's the big deal with "talking points" as long as they're valid. Remmah2 Aug 2012 #15
Hold it! Stop. discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #16
I'm starting to see a pattern here. My spidey sense is tingling. nt rDigital Sep 2012 #56
You can't argue with "truthiness." n/t ellisonz Aug 2012 #9
Are you saying the FBI and ATF are gejohnston Aug 2012 #10
Do you really think the rest of us... ellisonz Aug 2012 #23
As you noted a while back, gun nuts don't do multivariate analysis. DanTex Aug 2012 #24
Neither do you. Clames Dec 2012 #64
many if not most do. nt. gejohnston Aug 2012 #25
According to gunzzzz.com 7 out of every 5 gun owners have disrupted a child trafficking ring! DanTex Aug 2012 #19
New math??? n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #21
NRA talking points brought to you by gejohnston Aug 2012 #11
Calling something a "talking point" is not a rebuttal. GreenStormCloud Aug 2012 #12
In practice... discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #22
True. I ran into the same problem with this post, different anti. GreenStormCloud Aug 2012 #26
+1 :) n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #30
It is if the "point" can be labeled with the "N" word... Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #68
No, absolutely not. discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #13
If you ignore what is actually fact, will it suddenly stop being true? rl6214 Aug 2012 #48
Well, Jamaica (less than 500 miles from the US) has what amounts to a total gun ban and is awash spayneuter Aug 2012 #4
According to the Gun-Prohibitionists countries like Jamaica don't count rDigital Aug 2012 #17
Oh, well I figured there must be -some- mitigating factor. Arrgh. spayneuter Aug 2012 #29
"Prevent" is the wrong word here - no level of stringency will prevent petronius Aug 2012 #7
I support such ideas such as you suggest ... spin Aug 2012 #18
i believe you're asked the right question here and i believe there should be other helpful things samsingh Aug 2012 #27
This makes more sense, and is a regular topic of discussion here. Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #69
The problem is a lack of enforcement, not a lack of laws. ManiacJoe Aug 2012 #20
would law enforcement have stopped the gun massacre in Co? samsingh Aug 2012 #28
control is a myth discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #31
the benefits of guns is a myth and the rest of us are subjected to pseudo arguments samsingh Aug 2012 #34
Yeah, I see your point. I think you should tell that to these people. rl6214 Aug 2012 #35
i'm sure i can find more examples where someone shot people who were armed and couldn't samsingh Aug 2012 #37
I'll wait... rl6214 Aug 2012 #39
I'm still waiting for Sam's examples... All I hear is crickets. nt rDigital Sep 2012 #57
The Silence of No Response is deafening. n/t DWC Sep 2012 #58
Are we still waiting... PavePusher Dec 2012 #62
CCWers shooting back and hitting the wrong target is rare. GreenStormCloud Aug 2012 #43
"...pseudo arguments" discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #36
the one's i'm getting back samsingh Aug 2012 #38
Characterizing an argument... discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #40
savor away. samsingh Aug 2012 #41
Probably, if they had been there. ManiacJoe Aug 2012 #33
where there is a will there is a way. Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2012 #32
Good Question wolfman24 Aug 2012 #42
Welcome to DU. I wouldn't be surprised if you do get flamed, though... DanTex Aug 2012 #44
Falsely accusing those who disagree with you on one thing gejohnston Aug 2012 #47
My type of guns are OK but yours aren't. rl6214 Aug 2012 #49
Question for you. oneshooter Aug 2012 #50
Maybe some like these: AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #52
Welcome to the Gungeon DWC Sep 2012 #60
Award-winning lifelong liberal Dem criminologist seems to agree with you. Simo 1939_1940 Aug 2012 #45
The results of the poll are fascinating. ... spin Aug 2012 #46
Well that guy from Canada hasn't posted yet. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #53
This is not a zero sum game. It is not all one way or upaloopa Aug 2012 #51
It seem you're part of the "passsomethingnowwegottadosomethingrightnowomfg" crowd. The world rDigital Sep 2012 #59
Some actual difference but probably statistically null over any foreseeable time frame. TheKentuckian Aug 2012 #54
This poll speaks for itself. : ) read em' n weep rDigital Aug 2012 #55
*bump* rDigital Dec 2012 #61
wow. where did all the voters come from. n/t Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #63
No, of course not. The question itself is ridiculous. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #65
The poll is a puff piece for sure, but the numbers are surely interesting for the rDigital Dec 2012 #66
It demonstrates that they are a small minority. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #67
I agree. : ) nt rDigital Dec 2012 #70
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Would tougher gun laws pr...»Reply #42