Why would you not carry a gun in Church?

[Pholus]

147. Your usage of your data is flawed as is your assertion.

"As the data shows, we go out of our way to avoid problems."

You pushed two buttons there, so sorry.

First you were talking about who with the apparently non-inclusive "we" there? Certainly not my neighbor. That guy is constantly talking about fixing things he sees as problems. Fortunately, he does seem to be all talk but we're really not that sure.

Second, as an avid consumer of data I do get offended when it is pushed past reasonable interpretation or used incorrectly.

You completely mischaracterize the NYTIMES article. I think the main point is that after an examination of public records -- which is hard to do you see for several reasons -- you find that " of the roughly 250,000 North Carolinians with concealed carry permits, more than 2,400 of them had been convicted of felonies or misdemeanors, excluding traffic-related crimes. "

YOu don't cite your data but Lott claims a 0.008 PERCENT revocation rate in Florida for all causes. I saw another study that said 0.2% in Texas for the same -- is THAT the one you're talking about? Compared to a 1% incarceration rate nationwide, NC seems to have a 1% rate of people walking around with CCW who probably shouldn't. But I will be generous at first and restrict the discussion to the 200 NC CCW holders who had weapon-related felonies but still had their permits.

So 0.08% of CCW holders in NC are violent felons who still have their guns. How does that compare to the two numbers?

Assuming that NC and Florida have similar populations, Lott's numbers imply that only 1 in 100 people who should have a revocation do.

Assuming that Texas and NC have similar populations, the 0.2% revocation rate imply that there is up to a 30% failure rate to revoke.

Now Lott is an axe-grinding idiot, so the Texas numbers are probably more believable but there seems to be a evidence that the system has major problems.

Finally, and correct me if I am wrong, the 0.2% rate was revocations FOR CAUSE. Compare that to a 1% rate of people having permits that probably shouldn't and I see a broken system in which 4 out of 5 offences do not lead to revocation -- not evidence for proof of character. But I'm a downer about these things.

Finally, I've had an FBI background check. No skin off my butt, less paperwork than going to a new doctor's office. Ditto on the fingerprint/photgraph. I've seen what passes for the written test -- frankly the four hours of class is probably 3.5 hours too much. Finally, I shoot 250 rounds easily in a couple hours. Yup, I joined your club a few months back. Wasn't hard.

The process to get a CCW permit has zero rigor. Describing it in full detail (including the form numbers) is pretty much like me describing every single step of what I did in the bathroom this morning excruciatingly. Sure I can draw the story out and make it sound TERRIBLY complicated, but in the end it really only took 10 minutes and most of it was a process governed by biology and not the strength of my character.