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spin

(17,493 posts)
108. The Supreme Court currently leans in a conservative direction and has for years. ...
Fri Sep 14, 2012, 10:19 PM
Sep 2012

However despite the desire of conservatives, Roe v Wade hasn't been overturned since the court ruled in 1973.

Perhaps in 40 or 50 years a more liberal Supreme Court will overturn the recent decisions in District of Columbia v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago but I wouldn't get your hopes up too high that this will happen anytime soon. Times change but not rapidly.

Much of the legal battle over gun control laws in the near future will focus on the legality of the laws passed by states and cities restricting those who can own a firearm and who can legally carry one. The recent SCOTUS rulings do not prohibit all gun control laws.

You pose the idea of taxing bullets so that each would cost "20 bucks a piece." That would mean that a box of 50 handgun rounds would cost $1000 which would mean that just one box would cost twice what the very popular Glock pistol sells for.

In order to functionally check a new firearm you have to run at least one box of ammo through it and to develop any proficiency with using it requires far more rounds for practice. Under your plan only the 1% could afford to practice shooting with legal ammunition. However a black market would spring up and deal in smuggled ammunition just as the drug cartels market illegal drugs.

You also ignore or are not aware of the fact that many shooters reload their own ammunition and some even cast their own bullets. I reloaded my own handgun ammo for 30 years and still have the equipment to do so. I often reloaded a box of 50 .38 caliber bullets 30 times or more. All I would need is my expended brass, primers, powder and some cheap equipment such as a bullet mold and I can easily and cheaply produce very accurate ammo.

I suggest you check out these links to find out how simple it is:
http://www.zjstech.net/gunstuff/casting.html
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/how-to-get-started-reloading-ammunition/

If I didn't still have my reloading requirement I could go to amazon.com and pick up what I need for well under $100.
http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-38-SPL-Loader/dp/B00162RS7O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347669676&sr=8-1&keywords=lee+loader

I used a similar Lee Loader and produced about 6000 rounds for my handguns before I upgraded to a slightly more expensive reloading rig which was easier to use but the ammo I made with the Lee Loader worked just as well.

If you have any interest check out this site which sells reloading equipment and supplies.
http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-38-SPL-Loader/dp/B00162RS7O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347669676&sr=8-1&keywords=lee+loader

I should also point out that passing any law that would tax ammo as you suggest is TOTALLY politically impossible at this time. Reality is a bitch.

You state:


However, the NRA's tax free status is something that can legally be looked into, and maybe change the laws or something so anyone harmed by a gun could include the NRA in a civil lawsuit, and maybe finding them guilty of compliance.


It might be possible to review the tax free status of the NRA but you open a big can of worms when you suggest a civil lawsuit against the NRA for the misuse of firearms. If such a tactic was successful it could lead to lawsuits against many manufacturers and organizations that promoted their products. For example a civil lawsuit against Chevrolet because the corporation manufactures the high powered Corvette which is quite capable of exceeding existing speed limits and in the wrong hands can be misused and cause tragedy. Also included in the lawsuit would be Road and Track magazine merely because it published a positive review of the Corvette and NASCAR because it supports automotive racing sports. I doubt if your idea would hold water in most courts in our nation.

Currently the right to sue gun-sellers for liability is winding its way through the court system. It's a complicated case. If you wish to read about its progress and chances of success visit: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/09/us-usa-shooting-liability-idUSBRE8781JA20120809

You also mention:


Or maybe just allow the government to be the one to sell guns, and get rid of an independent gun dealer (sort of like how Walmart got rid of all the independent mom and pop stores )


Mexico has a system very similar to what you suggest. How well has that worked out?




Mexico
Main article: Gun politics in Mexico

Mexico has strict gun laws. Mexican citizens and legal residents may purchase new non-military firearms for self-protection or hunting only after receiving approval of a petition to the Defense Ministry, which performs extensive background checks. The allowed weapons are restricted to relatively low-caliber and can be purchased from the Defense Ministry only. "Military" firearms, including pistols with bores exceeding .38 caliber, and bb guns (but not pellet guns) require federal licenses and are regulated in a manner similar to that dictated by the U.S. National Firearms Act (NFA). The private sale of "non-military" firearms, however, is unregulated, and while these firearms are supposed to be registered with the government, in practice this is widely ignored. Laws dealing with the possession of "non-military" firearms are left to the states. Generally, "non-military" firearms may be kept in the home, but a license is required to carry them outside the home. President Felipe Calderón has recently called attention to the alleged problem of the smuggling of guns from the United States into Mexico, guns which are easily available both legally and illegally in the United States, and has called for increased cooperation from the United States to stop this illegal weapons trafficking.[44][45] In the five years prior to 2012, over two-thirds of illegal firearms seized in Mexico that could be traced to a source, were traced backed to the United States of America. However, traceable firearms constitute only a small portion of the total seized, and the origin of the majority cannot be positively identified.[46]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics#Mexico


You do have a lot of ideas on how we could reduce gun violence in our nation. It appears to me that you largely ignore the fact that honest citizens frequently use firearms for legitimate self defense just as many who propose draconian gun laws often do. Firearms in civilian hands do cause tragedy but they can also save lives. You may view this as an old tired augment but disarming honest citizens would enable the criminal element to practice its profession without fear of encountered an armed victim. Criminals can always obtain firearms and ammunition. Many drugs are illegal but are still easy to purchase and readily available in all areas of our nation. I can walk two blocks from where I currently live in a small town in Northern Florida and purchase any drugs that I want. (Of course I have no interest in doing so.) I am positive that if I wished I could easily buy an illegal firearm and the ammo to feed it with no questions being asked from the same individuals who deal drugs. If your ideas were implemented it wouldn't eliminate the simple fact the black market would provide them for a significant price.

I always welcome debate. I will only suggest that you carefully consider my viewpoints and counter them in a polite manner. I will in return treat your ideas with respect and give them honest consideration. We may still end up disagreeing but we might learn something from each other. Perhaps we may reach some agreement on how we can improve existing laws and reduce gun violence in our nation.

I look forward to your reply if you choose to make one.

















Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

NAMBLA and the KKK have their supporters too. Loudly Sep 2012 #1
So you are equating Gays with NAMBLA and KKK??? Raster Sep 2012 #2
He also equated machinists to child pornographers glacierbay Sep 2012 #6
It makes me wonder who/what the anti2A people really represent? Remmah2 Sep 2012 #8
I thought you were exaggerating 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #22
Wait, wait. I'm not done being offended by the OP. Loudly Sep 2012 #9
Kinda like comparing skilled machinists to child pornographers. glacierbay Sep 2012 #10
Unwholesome machining and unwholesome photography. Loudly Sep 2012 #19
The reason CP is banned is that there is no way it can be produced 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #23
Producing guns and ammunition guarantees that children will be harmed. Loudly Sep 2012 #29
So does producing pools or aspirin 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #30
You make the mistake of equating accidents with deliberate harm. Loudly Sep 2012 #35
I suppose that makes a huge difference to the parents 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #36
Intent is the heart of the criminal law. Loudly Sep 2012 #40
Now in our criminal law 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #41
We limit and deny access to dangerous objects. Loudly Sep 2012 #44
Right but the intent goes with the person not the object 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #45
And a firearm is not a dangerous item in and of itself glacierbay Sep 2012 #47
What utter nonsense. A gun cannot harm anyone by just sitting on a table, even if loaded... spayneuter Sep 2012 #75
No they don't glacierbay Sep 2012 #43
"I didn't know I was speeding" is no defense. Loudly Sep 2012 #46
And no firearms manufacturer has ever claimed that they didn't know that their product glacierbay Sep 2012 #48
Should auto manufactures be held to the same standards? oneshooter Sep 2012 #90
Wut? DragonBorn Sep 2012 #60
Should we ban cameras? Remmah2 Sep 2012 #24
That is a more apt analogy 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #31
Nor should we base our laws on irrational fears. SecularMotion Sep 2012 #3
+1 Absolutely... discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2012 #13
So you agree the need for citizens to carry weapons in public is based on irrational fears? SecularMotion Sep 2012 #16
Nor should we base our laws on irrational fears. Remmah2 Sep 2012 #20
Nope glacierbay Sep 2012 #21
Anti-gunners are conflicted here 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #25
Well, irrational fear... discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2012 #38
The fear of Jenoch Sep 2012 #116
You are right, we should let the irrational fears of Missycim Sep 2012 #80
You weren't born with a gun in your hand HockeyMom Sep 2012 #4
To protect ones self for how they were born should not be a crime either. nt Remmah2 Sep 2012 #5
But I WAS born with the right to defend myself. Atypical Liberal Sep 2012 #11
Your brain is your best HockeyMom Sep 2012 #18
That doesn't really make any sense 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #27
Good luck using your mind powers against an attacker. Atypical Liberal Sep 2012 #34
Our brains are great tools 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #37
That sounds to me... discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2012 #39
If we didn't have the brains to invent them, we would all be garden slugs. spayneuter Sep 2012 #76
Wow, mom, logic fail. nt rDigital Sep 2012 #112
? Are you telekinetic ? Tuesday Afternoon Sep 2012 #114
what a really, really stupid analogy.MY first amendment right is violated by a gun and bullets graham4anything Sep 2012 #7
No, stupid is not knowing what the 1st amendment actually protects DonP Sep 2012 #12
my right to assemble peacefully to watch a movie graham4anything Sep 2012 #56
the guy doesn't sound radical or right wing gejohnston Sep 2012 #57
nice changing of the subject and graham4anything Sep 2012 #59
Are you really that dense or just putting us on? DonP Sep 2012 #58
private person having a weapon of mass destruction is not mentioned in the 2nd Amend. graham4anything Sep 2012 #61
AGAIN, what are you personally doing about any of it? DonP Sep 2012 #67
the blacks in Katrina HAD NO GUNS and you are meshing topics graham4anything Sep 2012 #68
I mean, what really are gun people so scared of happening? graham4anything Sep 2012 #69
The guy who shot up the theater wasn't a right wing Missycim Sep 2012 #81
The NRA has only 4.3 million members out of the 80 million gun owners. ... spin Sep 2012 #70
it is because the Brady law doesn't go anywhere near what is needed graham4anything Sep 2012 #79
Well that was a nice screed you just posted Missycim Sep 2012 #82
Just another ill informed gun controller who is only a Keyboard Kommando DonP Sep 2012 #85
It is interesting that you mention Mayor Bloomberg. ... spin Sep 2012 #103
Let's see, what do all of those locations have in common... rl6214 Sep 2012 #71
A gun never saved anyone? glacierbay Sep 2012 #14
re: "a gun never saved anyone" discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2012 #15
"a gun never saved anyone" True, which is why if you're ever in trouble you should just 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #28
"MY first amendment right is violated by a gun and bullets" PavePusher Sep 2012 #49
bad analogy again JFK RFK Lennon MLK all were done in by guns graham4anything Sep 2012 #54
* Yawn * shadowrider Sep 2012 #62
no one forces you to read if you find it so boring graham4anything Sep 2012 #65
Hmmm, these posts sound an awefull lot like Hoyt. rl6214 Sep 2012 #72
It can't be Hoyt glacierbay Sep 2012 #74
I guess this is some sort of ad hominem against me graham4anything Sep 2012 #78
What I or anyone else needs glacierbay Sep 2012 #84
it is if it affects my rights graham4anything Sep 2012 #86
Show me where in the BoR glacierbay Sep 2012 #88
but Scotus is temporary graham4anything Sep 2012 #92
If you're pinning your hopes on the SCOTUS overturning the Second Amendment glacierbay Sep 2012 #94
without the NRA, you are but one person with no voice graham4anything Sep 2012 #97
Don't forget the millions that do support gun ownership glacierbay Sep 2012 #101
Question asked at post #90. Please answer. n/t oneshooter Sep 2012 #104
The Supreme Court currently leans in a conservative direction and has for years. ... spin Sep 2012 #108
as to many points, but starting with the issue of drugs... graham4anything Sep 2012 #110
correction gejohnston Sep 2012 #113
Very interesting post ... spin Sep 2012 #115
Sigh..... same old same old. PavePusher Sep 2012 #105
Warfgarble? n/t PavePusher Sep 2012 #64
Self defense is a RIGHT before all other rights. Missycim Sep 2012 #83
I would give the kid my wallet, its not worth 25 years in jail graham4anything Sep 2012 #87
Its not always that simple Missycim Sep 2012 #89
first the topic compares a gun and a gay person, now a gun and an abortion? graham4anything Sep 2012 #91
Again please stop with your shtick Missycim Sep 2012 #93
you are correct, for today, who knows what tomorrow will bring though graham4anything Sep 2012 #95
You can still get a 64oz soda in NYC glacierbay Sep 2012 #96
The law was signed yesterday, tomorrow, we can only dream graham4anything Sep 2012 #98
Didn't read the law, did you? glacierbay Sep 2012 #100
answer me this Missycim Sep 2012 #99
Because you're not part of the 1%. nt. glacierbay Sep 2012 #102
And more warfgarble.... PavePusher Sep 2012 #106
Here are 47 videos of people using guns to save themselves. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #55
Whatever you are smoking doesn't seem to be doing what you wanted it to. spayneuter Sep 2012 #77
You have opened six OPs on the same topic. Why don't you pose a single issue and consider jody Sep 2012 #17
Why? Is there a board rule? Remmah2 Sep 2012 #26
I don't believe there is such a rule. IMO replies to one of your OPs could also address the others. jody Sep 2012 #33
There is an anti-gun poster who at one time had 27 OP's on the front page shadowrider Sep 2012 #63
I did not mean to scold anyone. Just lost when trying to follow so many OPs with a common issue. jody Sep 2012 #73
WOW ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #32
When you push for laws banning guns with bayonet lugs 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #42
Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #50
In CA that is clearly the case. The laws here are that bad. ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #111
I have no problem with people who take out their guns in their own bedroom Speck Tater Sep 2012 #51
If I see someone "flash their gun in public" glacierbay Sep 2012 #53
And this happens... how often? n/t PavePusher Sep 2012 #66
In Florida brandishing a firearm is illegal even if you have a carry permit. (n/t) spin Sep 2012 #107
Some people dislike ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, too..... liberallibral Sep 2012 #52
Our current immigration laws need a major overhaul. ... spin Sep 2012 #109
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