Gun Control & RKBA

DWC

(911 posts)

122. My Point Is Made.

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 09:41 AM

Sep 2012

The limiting or, in a perfect world, elimination of violent, anti-social behavior is a goal of any society.

Violent, anti-social behavior can be committed with or without tools of virtually limitless types and descriptions.

Efforts to limit or restrict any specific type of tool does nothing to change the anti-social behavior. They also restrict the rights and freedoms of those who do not commit violent, anti-social behavior.

People in a free society are free to make their own choices and must be held responsible for the choices they make.

Violent, anti-social behavior is not the fault of Society
Violent, anti-social behavior is not the fault of a tool - ANY Tool
Violent, anti-social behavior is the fault of the Individual committing that behavior.

Individual Rights = Individual Responsibility.

Semper Fi,

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IMO This song defines our debate [View all] DWC Sep 2012 OP

I saw this in another thread, Oneka Sep 2012 #1

Exactly my point DWC Sep 2012 #2

Exactly. The song is largely one giant straw man. Atypical Liberal Sep 2012 #7

"Antis blame the tool. Pros blame the anti-social behavior. " Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #3

In what way is concealed carry antisocial? Common Sense Party Sep 2012 #4

I guess you found the answers. All four. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #8

Let's examine the errors in your statement. Atypical Liberal Sep 2012 #11

What you said. I find it jawdroppingly absurd that someone considers Common Sense Party Sep 2012 #13

I find it jawdroppingly absurd that you don't consider CCW antisocial Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #27

Consider these responses ErikO Sep 2012 #31

What? Name one. Common Sense Party Sep 2012 #14

It fits all of them. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #17

It fits absolutely NONE of them Common Sense Party Sep 2012 #23

Really? That hard for you? Clames Sep 2012 #5

Being ready, willing, and able to defend yourself is not anti-social behavior. Atypical Liberal Sep 2012 #6

Did I mention self-defense? No! Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #9

Self-defense with a weapon is still self-defense. Atypical Liberal Sep 2012 #10

Concealed Carry is nobody else's business DWC Sep 2012 #12

"That is why it is called Concealed Carry" LOL THREADWINNER n/t Atypical Liberal Sep 2012 #15

If it were nobody else's business, we wouldn't be discussing it. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #16

Which "herd" thinks that way you ask. DWC Sep 2012 #18

Is that what you learned in the Marine Corps? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #45

Shepards, not wolves, lead sheep to the slaughter DWC Sep 2012 #51

So, "putting my family in such danger" is necessarily associated with CCW? Eleanors38 Sep 2012 #34

My view on this.... virginia mountainman Sep 2012 #19

"Legal guns are not the ones you need to worry about." Indeed. Eleanors38 Sep 2012 #35

I don't worry about guns, legal or illegal. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #37

You do condemn those who legally carry. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #46

I think "condemn" is a tad OTT Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #47

With increasing age one is considered a soft target. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #50

I am prepared to use violence to defend myself. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #54

Avoidance is the best first defense. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #57

You keep using that word "Fear". Your usage is incorrect. PavePusher Sep 2012 #65

Preparedness for the most unlikely of events is not fear. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #71

1.3-1.5 million violent crimes per year. PavePusher Sep 2012 #74

And how do you fit into those numbers? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #78

You are hanging your ignorance out in public view, and that is certainly anti-social. PavePusher Sep 2012 #84

Good for you. Enjoy your "proper holster". Hope it makes you feel safer. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #90

Of course you don't. PavePusher Sep 2012 #96

You forgot the "loaded" and "concealed" parts. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #100

That's only half the equation. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #85

And I'm just as confident I won't need a gun. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #91

That's like saying, "I will wait until I get injured to buy insurance." N/T GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #101

I try not to get injured. I don't think about insurance. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #103

May your good luck continue. N/T GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #105

Stunning. Straw Man Sep 2012 #62

You confuse advice with condemnation. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #69

So it's both, then. OK. Straw Man Sep 2012 #82

Bingo! Straw Man Sep 2012 #61

The fact that it is none of my business does not mean it isn't anti-social behavior. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #68

What stunning illogic. Straw Man Sep 2012 #83

You, sir, epitomize the word "obtuse". Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #92

Another non-response. Stay classy, ST. Straw Man Sep 2012 #128

Water! Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #129

You are wrong about "lie by omission". GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #86

Of course, you are correct "by law". Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #93

You've now implied and insinuated that lawful carriers have criminal intent. PavePusher Sep 2012 #97

No, they are just ready to kill. No criminal intent implied. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #102

Why would I shoot another CCWer? GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #106

He carried illegally. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #104

Actually, it's more like going to a card game and not announcing that you have HIV petronius Sep 2012 #87

"all and sundry"? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #94

Are you really going to pretend that this discussion (and your analogy) is petronius Sep 2012 #95

"it's ridiculous to characterize the carrying of an inert object as sneaky, deceitful, anti-social" Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #99

I left out the word "gun" too, since the point applies to any object a person petronius Sep 2012 #108

You don't seem to understand personal boundaries. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #111

Speaking of anomalous, your conception of personal boundaries is the most unusual petronius Sep 2012 #113

Again, it isn't a question of me liking or disliking it. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #114

Like many other items, an improperly managed firearm can be hazardous. As a result, people petronius Sep 2012 #118

Indiscriminate CC is what I oppose, not all CC. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #120

I disagree, there is no "until" - mere presence is not a meaningful public safety issue, and petronius Sep 2012 #121

In most states a legal carrier has to pass state tests first. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #126

You should be safer than the police and definitely safer than the criminals. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #127

So do you think someone who is HIV Positive DWC Sep 2012 #115

No, they should let you know before you have sex with them. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #116

HIV POSITIVE people, according to you DWC Sep 2012 #117

Too little, too late. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #119

So you wouldn't play poker at someone else's place? GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #107

Either at home or a friend's place. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #110

You are comflating legal and illegal concealed carry. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #20

What is truly amazing is that you believe all that. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #25

Legal CCW has not led to more shootings, injuries and death hack89 Sep 2012 #29

Did I mention fear on my part? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #38

Hard facts = real data, not moral panic over other people's actions that you disagree with. hack89 Sep 2012 #49

What's with the "moral panic" thing. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #53

Passing judgement on gun owners exercising a civil liberty based on your biases hack89 Sep 2012 #55

"Passing judgement" - WTF Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #58

"I see it as foolish, unnecessary and socially regressive.." looks like a personal judgement to me. hack89 Sep 2012 #59

If you are discretionary about carrying, as you say, then I have no issue with you. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #63

OK - as long as you don't support changes to gun laws based on your views hack89 Sep 2012 #64

Killing in self-defense, while sad, is morally and legally OK. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #30

Tell yourself that. You don't have to justify your actions to me. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #41

I, for one, choose the limited purpose of self-defense... Eleanors38 Sep 2012 #36

What does being a store clerk or being a woman being raped have to do with you carrying? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #42

I don't wish to wait for a threat to me... Eleanors38 Sep 2012 #48

So you follow all your family around to protect them? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #52

Since I have no family to follow (here in Texas), the question is non-applicable... Eleanors38 Sep 2012 #60

So, again, I ask "What makes you a target?" Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #66

This is perilously close to saying "But look what she was wearing!" PavePusher Sep 2012 #70

What a crock! Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #73

"If you have already suffered violent attacks or threats, then you should consider carrying." PavePusher Sep 2012 #76

You became a victim the moment you first walked out the door wearing a gun. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #79

Really? What *demonstrable* harm comes from wearing a gun? friendly_iconoclast Sep 2012 #81

Do you think all harm has to be "demonstrable" to be real? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #89

Practical considerations aside, you seem to be veering into Robert Bork territory: friendly_iconoclast Sep 2012 #109

Keep stretching. Mind yoga is good for you. LOL Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #112

Glad you liked A-town. Damn developers are turning it into Miami... Eleanors38 Sep 2012 #77

"It's hard to come up with more anti-social behavior than carrying a concealed handgun... friendly_iconoclast Sep 2012 #21

I'd say you should work on your imagination Union Scribe Sep 2012 #22

Since the whole point of carrying CONCEALED is MicaelS Sep 2012 #26

You don't get it, do you? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #28

It's more like if I don't smoke I will reduce my risk of lung cancer. ErikO Sep 2012 #32

"Carrying a gun is just as anti-social as carrying a cell phone." Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #40

So, taking great pains to camoflauge one's defensive measures... PavePusher Sep 2012 #67

I guess you just answered you own question. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #72

Nice dodge. PavePusher Sep 2012 #75

"It's hard to come up with more anti-social behavior than carrying a concealed handgun" DWC Sep 2012 #80

That's only 9. Keep going, you'll get there soon. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #88

Good thing it isn't up to Cheryl Wheeler. trouble.smith Sep 2012 #24

Cheryl Wheeler is a hypocrite. She has no problem playing gigs in gun-friendly Vermont. friendly_iconoclast Sep 2012 #33

If Cheryl Wheeler was attacked (heaven forbid) ... holdencaufield Sep 2012 #39

she could call for gejohnston Sep 2012 #43

"*I'll* do the "thin'in'" around here!" holdencaufield Sep 2012 #44

Only if he has a Telecaster. jeepnstein Sep 2012 #56

Wow, this thread just got a LOT shorter. PavePusher Sep 2012 #98

?????? n/t DWC Sep 2012 #124

I round-filed the person accusing lawful owners/carriers of criminal intent. PavePusher Sep 2012 #125

My Point Is Made. DWC Sep 2012 #122

Post removed Post removed Sep 2012 #123