Gun Control & RKBA

rrneck

(17,671 posts)

126. As would I.

Wed Dec 14, 2011, 05:17 PM

Dec 2011

If I were married.

None of us knows what the future may hold. To set the value of a life at the possession of property is to dehumanize not only others but ourselves. Property can change hands. Lives do not. You or I may easily find that we have no property to defend at all and we will be the ones stealing.

If you can imagine someone stealing from a homeowner and getting shot for it, it's not hard to imagine that same homeowner stealing from a wealthier homeowner or a corporation and getting shot for it. It's easy to imagine because it's happened.

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_dilemma
http://faculty.plts.edu/gpence/html/kohlberg.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

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Please post reasons why it is OK to kill people in defense of property. [View all] digonswine Dec 2011 OP

I can understand essentials, such as insulin or scarce clean water, ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #1

Agreed- digonswine Dec 2011 #2

+1 Callisto32 Dec 2011 #37

So now you get into a judgement call. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #52

I already know what is essential in my life. ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #55

So now it's about survival? Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #66

The examples I gave were survival examples. ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #69

I dont LIKE the idea We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #72

Killing thieves is not necessary. ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #84

Citizens United 2 will make guns people. onehandle Dec 2011 #3

LMAO. LAGC Dec 2011 #111

LOL bongbong Jul 2012 #154

What if it is the tools and equipment needed to make a living? oneshooter Dec 2011 #4

In the long run safeinOhio Dec 2011 #5

It depends on your personal definition of "cheap". oneshooter Dec 2011 #6

You could sell a few of your guns instead of shooting an unarmed man rummaging through carport. Hoyt Dec 2011 #22

Why should I have to... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #40

Exactly. n/t Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #53

Thats just a stoopid post rl6214 Dec 2011 #70

Jesus, what if that "idiot" is starving and looking for food to feed family? Hoyt Dec 2011 #101

other than what's in the safe gejohnston Dec 2011 #103

Like me -- I hope they take it so that I don't have to haul it off. Hoyt Dec 2011 #104

Food in the carport?? one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #106

One-eyed, the world is not out to get you. Put your guns down for a week and enjoy life. Hoyt Dec 2011 #120

A lot of wisdom was engraved on Zippos half a century ago one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #129

If he's starving.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #108

Sounds so TBaggerish to me. Hoyt Dec 2011 #119

Oh my! discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2011 #122

Seriously? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #128

Actually, I'm suggesting it sounds like Newt saying 5 year olds can clean bathrooms. Hoyt Dec 2011 #132

Maybe you can explain one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #133

So you're suggesting HALO141 Jul 2012 #152

Food? In my toolbox? AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #147

How do I know that he is unarmed? GreenStormCloud Dec 2011 #140

And when they come back to steal more, you can just sell more guns. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #145

Not really, Shilka-Gunluvr Jul 2012 #144

That is what I was getting at-- digonswine Dec 2011 #8

I would not generally kill just to stop a theft. PavePusher Dec 2011 #7

I agree-in general- digonswine Dec 2011 #10

The decision whether to shoot, or even the ability shoot another person is very situational ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #15

If someone is on my property without my permission and/or has come into my house uninvited Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2011 #9

That is a very broad set of circumstances there. ManiacJoe Dec 2011 #11

true, but -- Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2011 #16

Context matters in this issue ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2011 #12

yes. context matters Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2011 #17

You post gets to the heart of the matter... SteveW Dec 2011 #141

Depends where they are. hack89 Dec 2011 #13

correct...someones in the garage, I'm not going to expose myself. ileus Dec 2011 #18

To me, it will revolve around the nature of the property being stolen. ManiacJoe Dec 2011 #14

I can only justify harming someone in self defense. AtheistCrusader Dec 2011 #19

You never know when a simple burglary may escalate into violent combat. alp227 Dec 2011 #20

This. TupperHappy Dec 2011 #125

Here�s a possible reason MicaelS Dec 2011 #21

If you have $100K worth of tools, I think I'd buy some insurance -- and not an S&W. Hoyt Dec 2011 #23

You get partial credit. ManiacJoe Dec 2011 #24

He also seems to assume that insurance will always fully replace ones' losses. PavePusher Dec 2011 #25

Oh, so it's OK to shoot unarmed person as soon as you calculate potential insurance coverage? Hoyt Dec 2011 #100

Surely you can cite where I said that... yah? PavePusher Dec 2011 #107

I have a friend with well over 100k in tools....he has plenty of S&W's, alarm and video monitoring. ileus Dec 2011 #89

Shoot an unarmed man for stealing and safeinOhio Dec 2011 #27

No it wont. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #30

That is a bit scary- digonswine Dec 2011 #78

Now that's the kind of gun owner I grew up with -- and helped me realize we gotta problem. Hoyt Dec 2011 #102

In Ohio, if an home or occupied vehicle is broken into then justified self defense is presumed. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2011 #34

My reply to #21 about a truck being stolen safeinOhio Dec 2011 #51

Wrong, it is not "playing" at anything MicaelS Dec 2011 #42

"Playing cop, judge, jury and executioner" rl6214 Dec 2011 #71

It's impossible to be very specific on that. rrneck Dec 2011 #26

It is VERY possible to be very specific on it We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #43

I would say that some form of agression is required on the part of the robber. discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2011 #44

The very act of theft is agressive We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #45

As I said... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2011 #48

Well yeah, rrneck Dec 2011 #58

I think we can expand a little Euromutt Dec 2011 #139

Back in the day one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #28

It would help... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #29

I have seen this argument before- digonswine Dec 2011 #79

I'm not the one deciding that We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #109

My opinion is that it is not OK to shoot people in defense of property...Period. n/t Bonhomme Richard Dec 2011 #31

That and $5 will get you a Grande Mocha at Starbucks.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #35

There is at least one state, TX, that makes provisions for using lethal force to stop prop. crimes aikoaiko Dec 2011 #32

Its not the only one We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #36

I will use deadly force to protect... jeepnstein Dec 2011 #33

+1 n/t Bonhomme Richard Dec 2011 #39

There is no simple yes or no answer Lurks Often Dec 2011 #38

Its simple for me. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #41

That's the best answer right there. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #54

Thank you We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #57

We each have our own choice to make Lurks Often Dec 2011 #56

Man - sucks for you.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #60

I was thinking of "should" shoot- digonswine Dec 2011 #80

The "should" shoot and "legal" shoot question is important... SteveW Dec 2011 #142

Premise appears generally flawed in that the victim will have zero idea... LanternWaste Dec 2011 #46

I have no duty to wait until I am attacked before taking action to defend my health and property. PavePusher Dec 2011 #59

I imagine any "duty" we have are merely the ones we set for ourselves... LanternWaste Dec 2011 #63

Depends on the state, actually. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2011 #64

I have been giving a lot of thought to this thread since I posted last Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2011 #87

My police department is 3 minutes down the road... so I'd guess 5-10 mins. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2011 #88

When I called about my last two vehicle break-ins in my driveway, the police never came. PavePusher Dec 2011 #91

interesting -- Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2011 #94

Apparently there is a policy that they have to show up for stolen firearms. (Tucson, AZ) PavePusher Dec 2011 #96

What was your truck doing in a bar? n/t oneshooter Dec 2011 #97

Trying to pick-up chicks..... PavePusher Dec 2011 #99

are kids considered property? ileus Dec 2011 #47

no We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #61

There are many people living hand to mouth. aikoaiko Dec 2011 #49

Why it's OK to kill in defense of property. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #50

Never judge a man with a gun in your hand. rrneck Dec 2011 #62

I can't. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #65

There is a huge difference rrneck Dec 2011 #67

Their life is forfeit if they try. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #73

You can't honestly shift the moral responsibility of your position onto others. rrneck Dec 2011 #76

Of course I can. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #113

Would you steal medicine to keep your wife alive? nt rrneck Dec 2011 #117

Would I? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #118

Imagine harder. rrneck Dec 2011 #123

Yes. I would murder to keep my wife alive. Atypical Liberal Dec 2011 #124

As would I. rrneck Dec 2011 #126

That's pretty rude. ileus Dec 2011 #127

Lets look at the ultimate cause of the issue here shall we? We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #115

Hmmmmm. rrneck Dec 2011 #121

Hmm to you too We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #130

It's nice that you agree with me rrneck Dec 2011 #131

As I originally said.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #136

I agree! bongbong Jul 2012 #158

If you dont want to get shot while stealing... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #74

What are the terms of the contract? nt rrneck Dec 2011 #77

That is the question- digonswine Dec 2011 #82

At the risk of speaking for others and getting it wrong rrneck Dec 2011 #85

Actually, there is rationality to "It is legal here - so watch out"... SteveW Dec 2011 #143

It sounds good until... rrneck Dec 2011 #86

Let me get this straight.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #110

Well, I might be insane but I'm not a thief rrneck Dec 2011 #116

Careful with a post like this bongbong Jul 2012 #160

In that effort, I am under no obligation to endanger myself. PavePusher Dec 2011 #92

Sure. rrneck Dec 2011 #95

You know, it is interesting one-eyed fat man Dec 2011 #134

If the property is replaceable, regardless of cost, then killing for it is rarely justified. Starboard Tack Dec 2011 #68

One more time for the REALLY slow ones in the group.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #75

i read it ten times- digonswine Dec 2011 #83

No, at that point he is no longer a danger to you. If you shoot then YOU are in the wrong. oneshooter Dec 2011 #98

Of course not. mvccd1000 Dec 2011 #105

Depends. We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #114

My home is a physical manifestation of the portion of my life that I have spent working slackmaster Dec 2011 #81

Anytime... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #150

I will defend my family and property 41mag Dec 2011 #90

my body is mine StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #93

It is never "OK" to kill people in defense of property DWC Dec 2011 #112

I think I posted about this on DU2, but will repeat. chrisa Dec 2011 #135

I agree with almost all of that.... We_Have_A_Problem Dec 2011 #137

I probably should have said "anyone." chrisa Dec 2011 #138

Bank guards and museum guards. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #146

Only way that would work is if the criminal was nice enough to leave a warning note. Clames Jul 2012 #148

One must always draw one's own lines. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #149

I definitely would not shoot someone unless there was personal danger. digonswine Jul 2012 #159

Thanks discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #162

I don't recall anyone proposing killing to defend property. HALO141 Jul 2012 #151

Boy-I barely remember posting that OP. digonswine Jul 2012 #157

EXCELLENT bongbong Jul 2012 #153

Interesting bongbong Jul 2012 #155

Interesting #2 bongbong Jul 2012 #156

I agree- digonswine Jul 2012 #161

Don't forget bongbong Jul 2012 #163

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Glaug-Eldare Jul 2012 #164

I think I remember now-- digonswine Jul 2012 #165