Gun Control & RKBA

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,717 posts)

60. regarding the Founders

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 08:13 PM

Jan 2012

"The founders were a bunch of smart white guys who owned slaves" - They were in general intelligent. There has been speculation that John Hanson was a black man. Some of the founders did own slaves, but I find this indirect indictment rather ad hominem.

"They were not some kind of infallible deity." - No one said they were. Please address elements of law or government rather than impugning historical figures.

"Neither were they prescient." - I didn't say they were. They were very familiar with the results of abuses by government.

"If any were around today, I doubt very much that they would support carrying concealed semi-automatic weapons at random." - In the prior sentence you speak of the inability to predict the future, and now you make your own predictions. I predict you've switched to de-caf.

"To connect them with the current Scalia/NRA interpretation of their intent is insulting to their intelligence and their integrity." - It is left to you highlight and defend your interpretation of the Bill of Rights.

:cheers:

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A common question to both sides... [View all] discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 OP

is there a question in there? Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #1

not in my mind discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #2

you are asking for one's personal definition of the word militia? Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #3

While the militia... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #4

but, in my mind Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #5

This is precisely my point. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #6

Definition of "militia" is clear. And, it is not not a bunch of right wingers living in a compound. Hoyt Jan 2012 #7

Discounting.... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #8

The definition of militia... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #11

Sorry, but you left out the "well regulated" part. Hoyt Jan 2012 #12

Thank you... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #13

The founders were a bunch of smart white guys who owned slaves Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #58

regarding the Founders discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #60

What does my use of the subjunctive have to do with prescience. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #73

Yup discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #84

Well... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #114

Let me guess, you slept through history class? Spoonman Jan 2012 #87

Let me guess, you slept through english comprehension. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #89

Feel free to continue Spoonman Jan 2012 #90

If only your "heroes" were around today Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #106

the term has been around for gejohnston Jan 2012 #108

About 100 years. OK Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #112

It has been well documented here what "well regulated" means and it is not what you think rl6214 Jan 2012 #14

Documented by right wing gun groups? There are plenty of scholars who disagree Hoyt Jan 2012 #15

Decided correctly in your mind is the way you want it, not the way the law really is rl6214 Jan 2012 #16

And, the recent decisions haven't accomplished a think in Chicago or DC. Hoyt Jan 2012 #20

That certain local governments fail to comply with the letter and spirit of court decisions ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #22

Apparently the majority in Chicago and DC don't think so. Hoyt Jan 2012 #24

Good thing ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #28

Chicago and DC don't control the nation rl6214 Jan 2012 #29

"Apparently the majority in Chicago and DC don't think so." beevul Jan 2012 #40

Lol, check this.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #26

they think Citizens United v FEC was decided correctly too gejohnston Jan 2012 #18

Well, at least you acknowledge that the SC screws up as they've done recently Hoyt Jan 2012 #19

have fun with that gejohnston Jan 2012 #23

Yes, the ACLU... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #27

When the situation warrants it, ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #17

We'll buy your interpretation for a moment -- then, leave your guns at home until called. Hoyt Jan 2012 #21

The defense of freedom, ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #25

Well, 96% of population does not feel need to strap a gun on to venture out. Hoyt Jan 2012 #31

As long as they don't try to stop the other 4% (assuming your "96%" is accurate) ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #32

We have the right to do a lot of things, but shouldn't -- like carrying guns in public. Hoyt Jan 2012 #33

Whether or not you consider it something we should not do We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #37

Says you ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #38

What i find to be humorous We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #39

Once again, a pro-gunner trying to compare his poor, pitiful gun plight to THE Civil Rights Movement Hoyt Jan 2012 #48

I am not comparing the defense of my right to be armed in public, ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #51

Actually, I would not have defended a cross burning. Hoyt Jan 2012 #63

Yeah, maybe ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #64

I hear you. But would rather folks don't shoot it out in streets. o Hoyt Jan 2012 #65

I don't want shoot outs in the streets ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #82

Really? ellisonz Jan 2012 #66

Correct ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #81

"Well Regulated" - Without the "Hoyt" spin Spoonman Jan 2012 #41

Define working-order in this context of firearms regulation. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #67

I’m certain you feel as though your question Spoonman Jan 2012 #86

I'm certain your patronization doesn't reveal your true character. ellisonz Jan 2012 #92

since women are now allowed to serve in the military Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #76

In UK and USSR gejohnston Jan 2012 #80

We are a country of laws E6-B Jan 2012 #117

Care to share it with us then? jeepnstein Jan 2012 #118

What part of my family isn't my country. ileus Jan 2012 #9

? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #10

What does "well regulated" mean in your opinion? ellisonz Jan 2012 #30

"well regulated" discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #34

So then we should have effective regulation? n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #42

Did that point even ruffle your hair as it flew over your head? n/t We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #43

To rephrase the 2A: discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #44

Means exactly what it says - "well regulated" ellisonz Jan 2012 #46

Your link discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #47

Read the whole thing and tell me what your impression is... ellisonz Jan 2012 #52

In the Swiss model gejohnston Jan 2012 #55

I think this is honestly closer to what the Founders meant... ellisonz Jan 2012 #68

That was the idea to have such an army gejohnston Jan 2012 #70

... ellisonz Jan 2012 #71

bold does not improve gejohnston Jan 2012 #78

Depends how you define people... ellisonz Jan 2012 #79

Most of them were West Germany gejohnston Jan 2012 #85

I'll get back to you on that as well as my reading of Stevens, et al... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #56

Done. ellisonz Jan 2012 #69

I guess you missed this bit, eh? X_Digger Jan 2012 #72

Your argument is incongruous. ellisonz Jan 2012 #74

No, your whining about 'well-regulated' has been dealt with. X_Digger Jan 2012 #83

the people discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #88

" A healthy fear of the people by the government yields freedom." - or Tyranny. ellisonz Jan 2012 #91

How Machiavellian of you to provide that quote ;) discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #93

At the same time the Constitution clearly makes treason a punishable offense... ellisonz Jan 2012 #94

"Can we not add to that list?" discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #96

Known member of a known hate group or criminal organization... ellisonz Jan 2012 #97

Sure... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #98

So you oppose gang injunctions? ellisonz Jan 2012 #99

I'm with the supreme court in Chicago v. Morales X_Digger Jan 2012 #102

I disagree - their activity in and of itself is intimidating conduct. ellisonz Jan 2012 #103

*gasp* you agree with Scalia?!? X_Digger Jan 2012 #104

Twisting. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #105

In a word... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #113

so you want to base a regulation gejohnston Jan 2012 #100

You're saying opposition to arming... ellisonz Jan 2012 #101

and who defines it gejohnston Jan 2012 #107

Not even going to try to unpack the meaning/facts of any of that...n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #109

simply pointing out gejohnston Jan 2012 #110

Well... ellisonz Jan 2012 #111

To further elaborate... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #45

regulate Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #53

Agreed. n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #59

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #35

Milita means an irregular group of civilians voluntarily DWC Jan 2012 #36

heh. irregular, nice choice of adjective there Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #75

So, why doesn't the Constitution start with, "We the militia . . . . ." instead of "we the people." Hoyt Jan 2012 #49

Because the PEOPLE compose the militia. So, why don't... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #50

People are a set, (or group) Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #54

All squirrels are mammals.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #57

Are squirrels in the militia? Sounds to me it's "people" the way you HAVE TO DEFINE IT Hoyt Jan 2012 #61

I bet that point didn't even ruffle your hair as it went right by. n/t X_Digger Jan 2012 #62

Hopefully, we'll get a Supreme Court in the next few years that is not so right wing. -- Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #77

It's all one big right-wing conspiracy... ellisonz Jan 2012 #95

" I ask sir, what is a militia? DWC Jan 2012 #115

For a modern spin: discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #116