Gun Control & RKBA

Atypical Liberal

(5,412 posts)

152. Like the man in the video said, it's about PRINCIPLE

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:09 AM

Oct 2012

Yes, the easy thing, the safer thing, might be to run away - to close up shop and cede the situation to the criminals of the world.

This man didn't. He took a stand. He didn't give up. He didn't let the criminals win. He didn't let the neighborhood lose one more store to violent crime and slide one step closer to a slum.

And he did it at great personal risk to himself.

Was this "an intelligent choice"? It was a principled choice. A principle of saying, "I am not going to let the bad people win."

I don't know how you can look at any good person who stands up to bad people at great personal risk to themselves and ask them if they made an intelligent choice.

They were brave and honorable and principled and good, in the face of risk.

We should praise such people. They are much rarer than those who run away when bad things happen.

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Interview with CA shopowner who killed five gang members in three attacks. [View all] GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 OP

I agree 100% what this man Missycim Sep 2012 #1

That is exactly what the Second Amendment is for slackmaster Sep 2012 #2

if it were me, I would move my business to a different location. Tuesday Afternoon Sep 2012 #3

Some people are just stubborn about not letting the barbarians push them out of their homes. PavePusher Sep 2012 #11

while I agree in theory (although this was a place of business) In my own Life Tuesday Afternoon Sep 2012 #13

This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2012 #54

There have been similar stories over the years ProgressiveProfessor Sep 2012 #4

I remember a LIFE magazine article that ran in the 1960s. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #6

Pretty resilient guy. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #5

Posts like this display your true colors........ Simo 1939_1940 Sep 2012 #14

You're joking, right? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #18

How can you have a civilized society gejohnston Sep 2012 #19

Giving in to sociopaths? I doubt anyone is suggesting that. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #20

Yes they can gejohnston Sep 2012 #22

No, I would never suggest giving in to sociopaths. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #25

While agree with that, gejohnston Sep 2012 #48

Ah, but the long term is made up of lots of little short terms. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #68

but the two are not mutually exclusive gejohnston Sep 2012 #70

If crime rates are tied to gun sales, why are sales up right now? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #72

not entirely gejohnston Sep 2012 #74

No, I'm not joking. Simo 1939_1940 Sep 2012 #23

I stand by those posts. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #26

This message was self-deleted by its author Simo 1939_1940 Sep 2012 #82

This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2012 #27

On the "factual basis" of my supremely excellent sense of humor. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #31

Bullsh*t. Simo 1939_1940 Sep 2012 #38

WTF! Continuing slurs against Gary Kleck. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #42

This message was self-deleted by its author Simo 1939_1940 Sep 2012 #81

Looks like I misinterpreted your statement........ Simo 1939_1940 Sep 2012 #83

his data was only way off according to gejohnston Sep 2012 #84

No, it was off according to me. I'm not familiar with Hemenway. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #86

And "sorry" - your analysis of the survey was excruciatingly dishonest. Simo 1939_1940 Sep 2012 #89

Those who bought it were motivated to buy it. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #92

it works both ways gejohnston Sep 2012 #94

I don't know what Dan would be doing. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #109

does that make you anti science? gejohnston Sep 2012 #111

Of course not. I just don't like the science applied by Klek. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #120

and award winning gejohnston Sep 2012 #123

Me? What original hypothesis? DanTex Sep 2012 #113

I don't know about everyone gejohnston Sep 2012 #115

See, that's what I'm talking about. DanTex Sep 2012 #118

because your criticisms are void of substance gejohnston Sep 2012 #121

"Those who bought it were motivated to buy it." Simo 1939_1940 Sep 2012 #134

WTF are you talking about? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #136

how was it poorly acquired? gejohnston Sep 2012 #137

It's not that I don't like the conclusions. They are absurd. 2.5 million dgus/year. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #138

If I were to say that gejohnston Sep 2012 #140

Got me wrong again GE Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #147

This message was self-deleted by its author Simo 1939_1940 Oct 2012 #153

So you're going to continue to lie about what you said? Simo 1939_1940 Oct 2012 #151

Here's the methodology of the NSDS. Readers can decide for themselves whether Simo 1939_1940 Sep 2012 #91

I'd love to see one like that done on fishing. I'd give it the same credibility. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #93

In 1993 when Kleck's survey was done, cell phones were very rare. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #116

I didn't mention cellphones. I did mention landlines, which was my point. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #124

Hemenway's funding source gejohnston Sep 2012 #125

Funny thing is, I am pretty agnostic on the issue. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #129

have you noticed that gejohnston Sep 2012 #131

Sure. A highly reputable department. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #132

If he published in a gejohnston Sep 2012 #133

Not only that, but other criminologists have looked at the Kleck study, and found it to be junk. DanTex Sep 2012 #126

Thanks for the links. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #144

Not surprisingly, you are dead wrong yet again on the issue of anonymity. Simo 1939_1940 Sep 2012 #135

Are you for real? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #139

in which case, gejohnston Sep 2012 #141

No, you would have had what you got. A load of crap. A house of cards. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #145

sorry, I'll take the word of gejohnston Sep 2012 #146

"You cannot build a case without a credible foundation. Sorry." Simo 1939_1940 Oct 2012 #150

Again, you lie about the approach used by the interviewers, and ignore Simo 1939_1940 Oct 2012 #149

The fact *is*, Gary Kleck is a very nice guy. Here's a chance to hear him speak: Simo 1939_1940 Sep 2012 #85

Sounds like a nice guy. I never thought he was a NRA stooge. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #88

Of course it doesn't change your view. Simo 1939_1940 Sep 2012 #90

Well just for the record, it made me laugh. petronius Sep 2012 #39

Thank you sir. A man with some class and a sense of humor. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #43

Also, just for the record glacierbay Sep 2012 #49

Thanks, I'll do my best. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #62

Blasphemy! bongbong Sep 2012 #28

I am the king of blasphemy around here. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #32

This post is just full of win. n/t ellisonz Sep 2012 #33

Or maybe it is full of Hoplophobia. Just an observation, sweetie. rDigital Sep 2012 #46

Sweetie? ellisonz Sep 2012 #50

Sweetie. rDigital Sep 2012 #52

Go Cheney yourself. ellisonz Sep 2012 #55

Not sure what that means. Tell us how you really feel! nt rDigital Sep 2012 #75

I think that it means that he REALLY likes you. n/t oneshooter Sep 2012 #142

: ) nt rDigital Sep 2012 #143

that reminds me, I'm about to go to the dump: UNARMED!!!!!! Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #104

Good for him 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #7

It might not have been a "high crime area" when he set up.... PavePusher Sep 2012 #12

Do you propose bank tellers be armed? Shootouts at Wells Fargo? Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #21

I used to work for Wells Fargo. I was armed. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #59

I used to bank at a Wells Fargo branch in Marina Del Rey about 20 years ago Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #61

It is cheaper and better to have the bullet-proof glass. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #64

Pretty much the same for me. Debit card and cash back for sundries. Starboard Tack Sep 2012 #66

I can't even remember the last time I went into our bank glacierbay Sep 2012 #69

Funny story about my dad... AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #154

Wow. If this guy was a Fighter Pilot, they'd be calling him Ace. n/t cherokeeprogressive Sep 2012 #8

Sounds like he's ready to open his own tactical training school. ileus Sep 2012 #9

I guess I heard it right: 5 yrs for one of the thugs... Eleanors38 Sep 2012 #10

Drives home a **very** important lesson stressed by Massad. Simo 1939_1940 Sep 2012 #15

Wow. That guy's story is wild. Training is your friend. Gang members aren't. nt rDigital Sep 2012 #16

Smells like the gangs have that part of lala in political play... Eleanors38 Sep 2012 #17

Are you advocating that the LAPD kill gang members for the purpose of intimidation? n/t ellisonz Sep 2012 #35

Nope. nt Eleanors38 Sep 2012 #36

Would you care to elaborate... ellisonz Sep 2012 #37

I am not a cop, nor have I ever played one on TV, and I haven't stayed petronius Sep 2012 #41

What he probably meant glacierbay Sep 2012 #44

Cops could take advantage of revenge doers, even if they are hoplophobic. rDigital Sep 2012 #47

It really is a Charles Bronson world. trouble.smith Sep 2012 #24

5:0 plus a couple in jail? You can win by attrition. AtheistCrusader Oct 2012 #155

This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Sep 2012 #29

Wimp! bongbong Sep 2012 #30

This Half Rambo shit is embarrasing! ellisonz Sep 2012 #34

Maybe he joined the ranks of the U.S Hoplophobic Army. Now, he's cowering in his basement. rDigital Sep 2012 #40

So your against someone defending themselves and their property? glacierbay Sep 2012 #45

I'm against someone who shoots first and thinks later. ellisonz Sep 2012 #51

Like I told ST gejohnston Sep 2012 #53

On the contrary, it appears he had *every* reason to shoot first. friendly_iconoclast Sep 2012 #56

In each incident the gang members initiated the violence. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #58

Not true glacierbay Sep 2012 #60

"You don't condemn the criminals" ellisonz Sep 2012 #63

Then you should be against the criminals in these incidents. They started the violence. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #65

There's stupidity on both sides. n/t ellisonz Sep 2012 #73

Much much more on the criminal side glacierbay Sep 2012 #79

But nobody is worshipping the criminals as heroes. DanTex Sep 2012 #96

but your side is not condemning them either gejohnston Sep 2012 #98

What "my side" does is point out that this gun hero made a dumb decision. DanTex Sep 2012 #99

Iraq is not remotely revevent gejohnston Sep 2012 #101

The principle is the same. You are trying to paint people who disagree with you as pro-criminal DanTex Sep 2012 #103

I don't know pro criminal, but certainly anti self defense gejohnston Sep 2012 #106

Your correct that nobody is worshipping the criminals as heroes. glacierbay Sep 2012 #127

The story isn't about criminals and neither is this group. Starboard Tack Oct 2012 #156

If it were just this one comment glacierbay Oct 2012 #157

accusing someone who stands up to sociopaths gejohnston Oct 2012 #158

Whatever guy glacierbay Sep 2012 #67

I'll say it, too: You don't condemn the criminals and this thread is prima facie evidence of that. friendly_iconoclast Sep 2012 #71

I don't underatand. Why didn't the police protect him and how did those criminals get those guns trouble.smith Sep 2012 #57

^Typical obtuse RWer ... eom Kolesar Sep 2012 #76

So I guess you can't explain why all those gun laws & all those cops didn't make this guy any safer? trouble.smith Sep 2012 #77

^ File this one under: "fucked premise" ... eom Kolesar Sep 2012 #78

Yes, the premise that anti-gun laws keep guns out of the hands of criminals is completely fucked trouble.smith Sep 2012 #80

Every incident of a gun being used in a crime is meticulously cited and cataloged 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #87

Umm... wouldn't it have been better to just shut down the shop from the get-go? DanTex Sep 2012 #95

perhaps, but like I told ST gejohnston Sep 2012 #97

It would be an intelligent choice. DanTex Sep 2012 #100

tell you what gejohnston Sep 2012 #102

Not respected by the NRA crowd, of course. DanTex Sep 2012 #105

I believe in science gejohnston Sep 2012 #107

LOL. "follow the scientific method". DanTex Sep 2012 #108

did he? gejohnston Sep 2012 #110

Yes, he did. DanTex Sep 2012 #112

he lived, gejohnston Sep 2012 #114

He was shot several times and had to shut down his business and is now hiding from a gang. Success! DanTex Sep 2012 #117

If he didn't resist, he could have been dead gejohnston Sep 2012 #122

Calling something a talking point is NOT a rebuttal. GreenStormCloud Sep 2012 #119

Like the man in the video said, it's about PRINCIPLE Atypical Liberal Oct 2012 #152

This is a guns as solution to guns story. Zero points awarded. Loudly Sep 2012 #128

Who really cares. oneshooter Sep 2012 #130

This is what we should aspire to in this country? jpak Sep 2012 #148