Gun Control & RKBA

DonP

(6,185 posts)

101. It appears that some people think abysmal ignorance of a subject is somehow a progressive value?

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 04:48 PM

Jan 2012

... and something to actually be proud of?

The idea of someone admitting a total, willful ignorance and lack of any form of experience, besides reading Brady press releases, and considering themselves "ready to rule" on a significant issue just amazes me. Having a point of view is fine, but to enter the discussion with a poorly formed moral superiority, a condescending attitude and nothing to back it up, puts them on a par with the worst of the Fundies and the hard core pro lifers out there.

No learning curve or questions about "why" or "how" required, no search for data from a neutral source like DoJ, CDC or the FBI, in fact a total denial of those sources, and no, as you so accurately point out, considering human nature and the real world.

Maybe we should consider it the "Sgt. Schultz Syndrome" from Hogan's Heroes; "I see nothing, I know nothing" adding only "I need to know nothing either"?

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Pistol grips on long guns, and rifle crime in general. [View all] benEzra Jan 2012 OP

Outstanding post, benEzra. Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #1

Pistol grips on any long gun are much more comfortable. ileus Jan 2012 #2

Pistol grips on any long gun are much more comfortable, especially for women. Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #4

I guess some want to sit in a recliner and blast away. Hoyt Jan 2012 #3

Those are his concealed carry guns DonP Jan 2012 #5

Yeah, they can also be used as a crutch if he shoots his foot. Hoyt Jan 2012 #21

"Didn't read narrative......." Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #12

Sorry, there is little in it I'm likely to agree with in this life. Hoyt Jan 2012 #19

Well, you might agree that pistol grips are common on European target guns... benEzra Jan 2012 #25

Ignorance, especially of the deliberate variety, The Doctor. Jan 2012 #81

More like you avoid material which conflicts with your memes, Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #119

That's what I say when I'm too ashamed to say "my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts" Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #135

Here's what I think: Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #51

Yeah, that blue color was a little lurid. Don't worry about not 'reading... SteveW Jan 2012 #72

That line of 'reasoning' would make any pictures of flowers The Doctor. Jan 2012 #83

Ignorance is bliss DragonBorn Jan 2012 #221

I believe that the"gun porn" scares him. n/t oneshooter Jan 2012 #224

Maybe the law could be rewritten... ellisonz Jan 2012 #6

"Death Spewer"? That is funny DonP Jan 2012 #7

Yeah whatever... ellisonz Jan 2012 #15

rude death spewer gunner toter baser. ileus Jan 2012 #50

Intentionally or unintentionally not showing the side with the stock folded against it? rl6214 Jan 2012 #10

Looking at the pic of the AK, ManiacJoe Jan 2012 #14

Yes. Underfolders are slow to deploy and a bit of a pain for that reason, though. benEzra Jan 2012 #23

No...This is a death spewer. beevul Jan 2012 #16

I have occassionally... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #66

It's understandable that one might get that impression from the "fear sells" media... benEzra Jan 2012 #22

Nope, that's a death spewer. ellisonz Jan 2012 #70

'ze Germans' would be carrying automatics in this case. His guns are no match. The Doctor. Jan 2012 #89

I resent you saying I have "hatred" by the way. ellisonz Jan 2012 #91

After you apologize for all of your mischaracterizations, The Doctor. Jan 2012 #115

It's not mischaracterization when it's true and the consensus depiction... ellisonz Jan 2012 #213

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #219

Why would I want to play footsie with you? ellisonz Jan 2012 #220

You don't realize how much you are projecting, do you? The Doctor. Jan 2012 #223

Sounds to me like you are afraid to take the test. n/t oneshooter Jan 2012 #225

LOL beevul Jan 2012 #228

I'll bite. ellisonz Jan 2012 #230

Fundamental misunderstandings. Straw Man Jan 2012 #232

And bite you did. beevul Jan 2012 #233

There's the classic "Damn right we'll conficate" friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #234

Let me remind you what the gun control lobby *used* to say about Title 1 rifles like mine. benEzra Jan 2012 #136

i have a very similar rifle YllwFvr Jan 2012 #198

No, just the West Germans. :-b benEzra Jan 2012 #121

Do you have some sort of plan to separate me from my death spewer? Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #137

death spewer toter -- I may have to make that my new sigline -- wonder how well that would go over Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #152

AAAAAAhahahahahahahahaha rl6214 Jan 2012 #154

See someone with a sense of humor about life... ellisonz Jan 2012 #155

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #222

I hope to get an AK pistol this year for the Jeep. ileus Jan 2012 #49

I have a 30cal BAR and a 1919a4 for my jeep oneshooter Jan 2012 #118

I have an AR pistol I built that I take out often in the jeep. rl6214 Jan 2012 #156

"Death Spewer" Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #59

You expect "virulent pro-death spewer reaction" from fellow progressives? SteveW Jan 2012 #73

You're as bad as the anti-choicers. The Doctor. Jan 2012 #87

"It can certainly be characterized as 'hysterical', though I'll leave out the gender aspect of it." ellisonz Jan 2012 #90

That's not rational, but I'd like to help. The Doctor. Jan 2012 #95

I have no need for your "help" ellisonz Jan 2012 #98

Whatever excuse you need to avoid backing up your own assertions. The Doctor. Jan 2012 #107

"It can certainly be characterized as 'hysterical', though I'll leave out the gender aspect of it." ellisonz Jan 2012 #109

Like I said, you were fishing for excuses to avoid a substantive challenge. The Doctor. Jan 2012 #110

Full automatics ARE legal, in many states. beevul Jan 2012 #151

Wow, I haven't seen a backpedal like that in ages. mvccd1000 Jan 2012 #173

When you call people and/or their tools "death-spewers", you are accusing them of homocidal intent PavePusher Jan 2012 #189

Would you like to hear about the gun control measures I'm OK with? benEzra Jan 2012 #138

I'm very open-minded.... ellisonz Jan 2012 #149

Oh we can tell you're open minded... We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #187

That's your opinion. ellisonz Jan 2012 #197

What do you find unconvincing? We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #200

... ellisonz Jan 2012 #204

I guess I just don't understand your sense of humor. We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #205

There was a lot of funny about that post... ellisonz Jan 2012 #208

Since you wont engage in actual debate.... We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #211

Debating you is like debating a dining room table, I have no further interest in doing it. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #215

If you keep losing to the dining room table.... We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #216

He's gonna have one bitch of a time when the armoire wakes up... Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #231

I don't know a single gun owner that dosen't want to see an end to violence rl6214 Jan 2012 #158

Most European systems would liscense you as a collector I believe... ellisonz Jan 2012 #159

Or as a competitive shooter. benEzra Jan 2012 #172

I am licensed as a collector rl6214 Jan 2012 #177

So then I suppose the question... ellisonz Jan 2012 #178

I guess my question would be...what is a higher standard? rl6214 Jan 2012 #180

Say required by law like you've done on your own to... ellisonz Jan 2012 #183

I know there are some places that have requirements like that rl6214 Jan 2012 #184

I love Guns forum analogies iverglas Jan 2012 #114

That's pretty misandrist of you to say that. The Doctor. Jan 2012 #117

do you have an opinion on abortion? iverglas Jan 2012 #124

You need glasses then. The Doctor. Jan 2012 #128

omg iverglas Jan 2012 #148

Many years, no reason. mvccd1000 Jan 2012 #174

That AK is pretty stupid DissedByBush Jan 2012 #126

This poster is no longer with us. ellisonz Jan 2012 #179

What did dissed do to warrant his ejection? rl6214 Jan 2012 #181

From his profile: ellisonz Jan 2012 #182

Didn't I see something like that in a post that he was going to post it as his sig line rl6214 Jan 2012 #185

Doncha know those against pistol grips don't care how uncomfortable it is to shoot without one rl6214 Jan 2012 #8

Yeah, but when I Read a few lines, it's about better if attacked. Hoyt Jan 2012 #26

"Too much paranoia" indeed. benEzra Jan 2012 #28

Don't care about that bull. This commando bs is not good for society. Hoyt Jan 2012 #30

Dude, I'm a 41-year old geek. benEzra Jan 2012 #32

You still read townhall.com. Hoyt Jan 2012 #37

Actually, I don't. benEzra Jan 2012 #45

Sorry, wrong thread. I was posting from new phone rather than desktop. Hoyt Jan 2012 #48

No problem at all; we're all human here. benEzra Jan 2012 #125

I have no real problem with most people having a gun at home. But, not so much, in public. Hoyt Jan 2012 #161

Whoa, you can't remember who linked townhall.com? beevul Jan 2012 #47

Lookout... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #67

Admittedly, that's funny. Hoyt Jan 2012 #165

Have a nice day. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #186

BE CAREFUL! discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #188

Do you strap on a backup as well? Hoyt Jan 2012 #192

Negative, sir. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #193

Define 'not good' and 'commando' E6-B Jan 2012 #34

Members of gun culture always want definitions. Think is my advice. Hoyt Jan 2012 #36

I think you have not thought this out very much. E6-B Jan 2012 #52

Well yeah.... We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #57

If you can't define a problem then it indicates you don't understand the problem. Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #62

Defining terms is important Union Scribe Jan 2012 #130

Read my signature....... Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #133

In what way is it harmful? Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #60

"Commando:" Are you referencing an old Studebaker? nt SteveW Jan 2012 #74

I don't get it...why are you so opposed to people defending themselves against thugs? Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #140

I'd like to see your society policeman badge rl6214 Jan 2012 #160

Good post my boy x dog Jan 2012 #9

I carried a shotgun around with a sawed off stock when someone was stalking and tried Lint Head Jan 2012 #11

I hear you on stalker. On pistol grip, it's kind of like some folks recommend maturbation Hoyt Jan 2012 #38

Not competitve. I just target practice. Lint Head Jan 2012 #227

Pistol grips are very good on shotguns DissedByBush Jan 2012 #127

Yeah, hearing that silly meme repeated here made me scratch my head. X_Digger Jan 2012 #13

Again, talking about at close range in surprise at a crowd... ellisonz Jan 2012 #17

If you ever find yourself in NC, shoot me a PM. benEzra Jan 2012 #24

They're virtually the same in those circumstances, pistol grip or straight stock. X_Digger Jan 2012 #27

You mean, like a crowd in the queue to go through a metal detector... krispos42 Jan 2012 #35

Into a public event... ellisonz Jan 2012 #40

By that criteria, you should be more worried about shotguns. beevul Jan 2012 #42

"And yet...somehow I doubt that you are." ellisonz Jan 2012 #43

Nice dodge. beevul Jan 2012 #44

Are you keeping records? ellisonz Jan 2012 #68

We all are. Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #69

And yet I'm the totalitarian... ellisonz Jan 2012 #77

Indeed, and we are keeping record of that fact. Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #79

At last, something about which I can agree with you Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #141

lol ellisonz Jan 2012 #144

Well, I just took you at your word, it's my usual MO. I'm new here but not to the world. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #145

Well, that's a very silly criteria. PavePusher Jan 2012 #191

So are you saying dude's been following my posts for over a year? ellisonz Jan 2012 #194

Really? You make an accusation of stalking from out of the blue? PavePusher Jan 2012 #199

Grow a sense of humor. ellisonz Jan 2012 #202

No, that is not even remotely what he said. We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #201

When you say "I'm not attempting to insult you" ellisonz Jan 2012 #203

No i really wasn't We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #206

Oh I sorree Mr. We_Have_A_Problem... ellisonz Jan 2012 #209

Truthfully... We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #212

"You also frequently seem to completely misunderstand what should have been crystal clear." ellisonz Jan 2012 #214

I agree with you 100% We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #217

I state my opinion... ellisonz Jan 2012 #218

Sigh.... We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #226

Worry about the wrath of an unplugged Remington 870 shotgun! Argh. SteveW Jan 2012 #76

You *do* have to index a rifle at any realistic distance. benEzra Jan 2012 #46

You're right, it's not that widespread in the United States yet... ellisonz Jan 2012 #146

Thoughts, at some length... benEzra Jan 2012 #166

Thoughts, in brief... ellisonz Jan 2012 #175

Sigh... benEzra Jan 2012 #176

A couple of observations re: claims on your part Euromutt Jan 2012 #235

A couple of judgments re: claims on your part ellisonz Jan 2012 #236

If you're trying to make a point, maybe you should try sticking to it Euromutt Jan 2012 #238

Same shit, different poster. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #240

"Please tell me why someone should be allowed to own half-a-dozen handguns with little oversight." friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #239

The issue is theft and supply to the black market. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #241

You really couldn't say more clearly that you do not understand the point. TheWraith Jan 2012 #78

What is the point? ellisonz Jan 2012 #80

Yes, that it's ergonomic. TheWraith Jan 2012 #84

Well I hope that one day soon these military grade weapons will be severely restricted... ellisonz Jan 2012 #85

You've yet to provide any validity to your 'side'.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #92

Different subject... ellisonz Jan 2012 #93

All guns or their antecedents, save for a few target guns / bench competition guns.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #99

Can you reduce the size of your pron? n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #100

Do you even do the slightest bit of fact checking? We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #102

Have you considered that there are other standards of lethality than ballistics? n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #103

By all means We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #105

Sure. ellisonz Jan 2012 #106

Except that.... We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #111

Nice... killer angel Jan 2012 #195

Did you think nobody would notice your substitution? X_Digger Jan 2012 #112

Do not expect honesty from these people. The Doctor. Jan 2012 #116

You know you linked to your own post, right? moriah Jan 2012 #157

Extrapolation isn't just a word beginning with 'E'. The Doctor. Jan 2012 #162

Damn, then, guess I shoulda voted to hide when it was alerted. ;) moriah Jan 2012 #164

Referring to other posts in a single thread The Doctor. Jan 2012 #169

*taps foot*.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #153

Which of course explains why they are used in less than 3% of all homicides committed with firearms. AtheistCrusader Jan 2012 #237

*taps foot*.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #245

Yes, there are. benEzra Jan 2012 #143

Those aren't "military grade weapons." TheWraith Jan 2012 #96

Except you are very insistently confusing NON-military-grade weapons with actual benEzra Jan 2012 #139

Unless there is a serious and dramatic change in human behavior We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #94

It appears that some people think abysmal ignorance of a subject is somehow a progressive value? DonP Jan 2012 #101

Well, if an armed citizen can't figure out and shoot the right person in a milling panicked, crowd.. krispos42 Jan 2012 #82

Seriously?! A pistol grip aids in concealment?! Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #242

You had a point? We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #58

Notice how even soldiers carry for quick spraying DissedByBush Jan 2012 #131

Interesting picture E6-B Jan 2012 #171

Nice historic photo - looks like an old Browning Automatic Rifle JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2012 #56

That is and he is. The Browning BAR was designed as a "keep their heads down" oneshooter Jan 2012 #120

I wish my dad made me cool stuff like his father did DonP Jan 2012 #61

Anschutz makes extremely accuarate target rifles... spin Jan 2012 #18

Always a pleasure to read a well thought out Union Scribe Jan 2012 #20

Dreaded bayonet attacks E6-B Jan 2012 #29

I endorse them? But, anyone who needs a bayonet, should be prohibited from guns. Hoyt Jan 2012 #31

Is it a massive problem? Bayonet fear mongering. E6-B Jan 2012 #33

If you really think you need a bayonet, you should talk to a medical professional IMlayO. Hoyt Jan 2012 #39

Why? Flash supressors? E6-B Jan 2012 #54

Why should he need a medical professional when you're right here on the scene? Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #142

Can you help me understand flash suppressor logic? E6-B Jan 2012 #170

Sadly, I can not. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #229

I prefer to shoot the litter back to the stone age era veteran Jan 2012 #41

I used my bayonet in the army, and carry one when hunting JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2012 #53

I think really they're talking about the attachment to a rifle...n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #88

A bayonet is merely a knife... We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #104

Most of the early bayonets were 16-24" long oneshooter Jan 2012 #123

Is there any use for a forward pistol grip? JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2012 #55

The same ergonomics as the rear pistol grip. X_Digger Jan 2012 #63

Great post!! montanto Jan 2012 #64

The Devil!!! Glassunion Jan 2012 #65

Good to hear from you again, Ben. Hope all is well in your family. nt SteveW Jan 2012 #71

Doing great, thanks! benEzra Jan 2012 #150

+1. Dude, that's good news. Thanks for the update. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #163

Glad to hear things look a lot better than they did for a while there. DonP Jan 2012 #190

That determined look. Wish I were that young if for that reason only. nt SteveW Jan 2012 #196

What a person with no feffing clue sounds like.... E6-B Jan 2012 #75

I see you're a fan of the Tucker! n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #86

no, probably googled gejohnston Jan 2012 #97

OMFG! DissedByBush Jan 2012 #134

OMFG she is in Congress writing gun control laws. E6-B Jan 2012 #167

I cannot believe... We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #207

Didn't you just post a thread in Meta Union Scribe Jan 2012 #129

Unknowingly via yahoo news. ellisonz Jan 2012 #147

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #168

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #132

Death Spewing hip fire... Glassunion Jan 2012 #108

And compare that can't-hit-squat hip shooting benEzra Jan 2012 #243

Actually, that's not hip firing... PavePusher Jan 2012 #246

Point of order Glassunion Jan 2012 #247

My point exactly... PavePusher Jan 2012 #248

I shot a muzzle loader for the first time last weeked (obviously, no pistol grip)... OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2012 #113

I wish all criminals would always shoot from the hip DissedByBush Jan 2012 #122

*dancing* ellisonz Jan 2012 #210

Isn't it great seeing fun guns being accepted by common shooters across America. ileus Jan 2012 #244