Gun Control & RKBA

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,719 posts)

116. For a modern spin:

Fri Jan 13, 2012, 10:02 AM

Jan 2012

Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm: "The Second Amendment was meant to accomplish two distinct goals…First, it was meant to guarantee the individual’s right to have arms for self-defense and self-preservation. These privately owned arms were meant to serve a larger purpose as well…and it is the coupling of these two objectives that has caused the most confusion. The customary American militia necessitated an armed public…the militia (being)…the body of the people. The argument that today’s National Guardsmen, members of a select militia, would constitute the only persons entitled to keep and bear arms has no historical foundation."

I have read Justice Steven's dissenting opinion in Heller v DC and I am unable to agree. Despite my respect for him and all SCJs, he is just wrong.

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A common question to both sides... [View all] discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 OP

is there a question in there? Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #1

not in my mind discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #2

you are asking for one's personal definition of the word militia? Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #3

While the militia... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #4

but, in my mind Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #5

This is precisely my point. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #6

Definition of "militia" is clear. And, it is not not a bunch of right wingers living in a compound. Hoyt Jan 2012 #7

Discounting.... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #8

The definition of militia... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #11

Sorry, but you left out the "well regulated" part. Hoyt Jan 2012 #12

Thank you... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #13

The founders were a bunch of smart white guys who owned slaves Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #58

regarding the Founders discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #60

What does my use of the subjunctive have to do with prescience. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #73

Yup discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #84

Well... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #114

Let me guess, you slept through history class? Spoonman Jan 2012 #87

Let me guess, you slept through english comprehension. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #89

Feel free to continue Spoonman Jan 2012 #90

If only your "heroes" were around today Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #106

the term has been around for gejohnston Jan 2012 #108

About 100 years. OK Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #112

It has been well documented here what "well regulated" means and it is not what you think rl6214 Jan 2012 #14

Documented by right wing gun groups? There are plenty of scholars who disagree Hoyt Jan 2012 #15

Decided correctly in your mind is the way you want it, not the way the law really is rl6214 Jan 2012 #16

And, the recent decisions haven't accomplished a think in Chicago or DC. Hoyt Jan 2012 #20

That certain local governments fail to comply with the letter and spirit of court decisions ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #22

Apparently the majority in Chicago and DC don't think so. Hoyt Jan 2012 #24

Good thing ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #28

Chicago and DC don't control the nation rl6214 Jan 2012 #29

"Apparently the majority in Chicago and DC don't think so." beevul Jan 2012 #40

Lol, check this.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #26

they think Citizens United v FEC was decided correctly too gejohnston Jan 2012 #18

Well, at least you acknowledge that the SC screws up as they've done recently Hoyt Jan 2012 #19

have fun with that gejohnston Jan 2012 #23

Yes, the ACLU... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #27

When the situation warrants it, ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #17

We'll buy your interpretation for a moment -- then, leave your guns at home until called. Hoyt Jan 2012 #21

The defense of freedom, ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #25

Well, 96% of population does not feel need to strap a gun on to venture out. Hoyt Jan 2012 #31

As long as they don't try to stop the other 4% (assuming your "96%" is accurate) ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #32

We have the right to do a lot of things, but shouldn't -- like carrying guns in public. Hoyt Jan 2012 #33

Whether or not you consider it something we should not do We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #37

Says you ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #38

What i find to be humorous We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #39

Once again, a pro-gunner trying to compare his poor, pitiful gun plight to THE Civil Rights Movement Hoyt Jan 2012 #48

I am not comparing the defense of my right to be armed in public, ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #51

Actually, I would not have defended a cross burning. Hoyt Jan 2012 #63

Yeah, maybe ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #64

I hear you. But would rather folks don't shoot it out in streets. o Hoyt Jan 2012 #65

I don't want shoot outs in the streets ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #82

Really? ellisonz Jan 2012 #66

Correct ObamaFTW2012 Jan 2012 #81

"Well Regulated" - Without the "Hoyt" spin Spoonman Jan 2012 #41

Define working-order in this context of firearms regulation. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #67

I’m certain you feel as though your question Spoonman Jan 2012 #86

I'm certain your patronization doesn't reveal your true character. ellisonz Jan 2012 #92

since women are now allowed to serve in the military Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #76

In UK and USSR gejohnston Jan 2012 #80

We are a country of laws E6-B Jan 2012 #117

Care to share it with us then? jeepnstein Jan 2012 #118

What part of my family isn't my country. ileus Jan 2012 #9

? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #10

What does "well regulated" mean in your opinion? ellisonz Jan 2012 #30

"well regulated" discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #34

So then we should have effective regulation? n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #42

Did that point even ruffle your hair as it flew over your head? n/t We_Have_A_Problem Jan 2012 #43

To rephrase the 2A: discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #44

Means exactly what it says - "well regulated" ellisonz Jan 2012 #46

Your link discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #47

Read the whole thing and tell me what your impression is... ellisonz Jan 2012 #52

In the Swiss model gejohnston Jan 2012 #55

I think this is honestly closer to what the Founders meant... ellisonz Jan 2012 #68

That was the idea to have such an army gejohnston Jan 2012 #70

... ellisonz Jan 2012 #71

bold does not improve gejohnston Jan 2012 #78

Depends how you define people... ellisonz Jan 2012 #79

Most of them were West Germany gejohnston Jan 2012 #85

I'll get back to you on that as well as my reading of Stevens, et al... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #56

Done. ellisonz Jan 2012 #69

I guess you missed this bit, eh? X_Digger Jan 2012 #72

Your argument is incongruous. ellisonz Jan 2012 #74

No, your whining about 'well-regulated' has been dealt with. X_Digger Jan 2012 #83

the people discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #88

" A healthy fear of the people by the government yields freedom." - or Tyranny. ellisonz Jan 2012 #91

How Machiavellian of you to provide that quote ;) discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #93

At the same time the Constitution clearly makes treason a punishable offense... ellisonz Jan 2012 #94

"Can we not add to that list?" discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #96

Known member of a known hate group or criminal organization... ellisonz Jan 2012 #97

Sure... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #98

So you oppose gang injunctions? ellisonz Jan 2012 #99

I'm with the supreme court in Chicago v. Morales X_Digger Jan 2012 #102

I disagree - their activity in and of itself is intimidating conduct. ellisonz Jan 2012 #103

*gasp* you agree with Scalia?!? X_Digger Jan 2012 #104

Twisting. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #105

In a word... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #113

so you want to base a regulation gejohnston Jan 2012 #100

You're saying opposition to arming... ellisonz Jan 2012 #101

and who defines it gejohnston Jan 2012 #107

Not even going to try to unpack the meaning/facts of any of that...n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #109

simply pointing out gejohnston Jan 2012 #110

Well... ellisonz Jan 2012 #111

To further elaborate... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #45

regulate Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #53

Agreed. n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #59

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #35

Milita means an irregular group of civilians voluntarily DWC Jan 2012 #36

heh. irregular, nice choice of adjective there Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #75

So, why doesn't the Constitution start with, "We the militia . . . . ." instead of "we the people." Hoyt Jan 2012 #49

Because the PEOPLE compose the militia. So, why don't... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #50

People are a set, (or group) Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #54

All squirrels are mammals.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #57

Are squirrels in the militia? Sounds to me it's "people" the way you HAVE TO DEFINE IT Hoyt Jan 2012 #61

I bet that point didn't even ruffle your hair as it went right by. n/t X_Digger Jan 2012 #62

Hopefully, we'll get a Supreme Court in the next few years that is not so right wing. -- Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2012 #77

It's all one big right-wing conspiracy... ellisonz Jan 2012 #95

" I ask sir, what is a militia? DWC Jan 2012 #115

For a modern spin: discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #116