Gun Control & RKBA

Dog Gone at Penigma

(433 posts)

161. NOT a strawman

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 02:18 PM

Nov 2012

Countries that have better gun regulation have less gun crime.

They still have some crime, but they have less of this kind of crime.

They have for example far far fewer law enforcement fatalities, and the ones they do have are not from violent crime.

People with guns in their homes have more instances of gun violence in their homes -- and not from intruders.

People with guns in their homes have far more incidents of kids being injured or killed, of suicides, homicides, murder/suicides.
Guns make a lot of kinds of violence and intimidation easier in ways alternative methods of violence do not.

So until you can magically wave your gun and make those statistics go away, it is not a straw man, it is a valid statement of fact that you cannot refute away. Guns kill people.

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6L6&sa=X&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US fficial&biw=1354&bih=598&tbm=isch&tbnid=s4Um-svqnHvD7M:&imgrefurl=http://www.myspace.com/85795222&docid=SuLjtjqMO4epXM&imgurl=&w=400&h=400&ei=aQO1UO6xCOvuiQKem4C4Bw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=4&vpy=138&dur=867&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=87&ty=115&sig=111977705240539394157&page=1&tbnh=142&tbnw=142&start=0&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:88

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Walmart is the largest firearms dealer in US; has roughly one-a-week firearms incidents [View all] Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 OP

Walmarts only have class one FFL gejohnston Nov 2012 #1

amazing the gun people seem to be on call 24/7/365 to respond to any anti-gun thread graham4anything Nov 2012 #5

like airplanes, cars, electrical codes, gejohnston Nov 2012 #9

Yes, we are always here, just like anti-gunners. NewMoonTherian Nov 2012 #10

We're here to counter the lies glacierbay Nov 2012 #21

Nobody lies but the NRA(the worlds #1 super lobby group pac graham4anything Nov 2012 #23

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight glacierbay Nov 2012 #29

You say "Nobody lies but the NRA." Sure they do. Many anti-gunners create false straw-men. AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #76

Your irrelevency must be a great comfort to you. PavePusher Nov 2012 #31

not at all Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #63

O.K., I'm confused about what you are trying to say. PavePusher Nov 2012 #65

he is saying that Wal Mart pencil whips NICS checks and 4473s gejohnston Nov 2012 #66

Your backing of the confederate army/dixie flag on a different thread makes it all quite clear graham4anything Nov 2012 #74

Word salad. AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #77

My "backing" of WHAT?! Citation, please. n/t PavePusher Nov 2012 #83

I love that NRA soundbyte word "citation". Spent 8 years on a board with NRA folk using it. graham4anything Nov 2012 #85

So, you can not quote where I defend the Confederate flag? n/t PavePusher Nov 2012 #86

Is "link" a NRA "soundbyte" also? Marengo Nov 2012 #87

Cite to support your claim - or you're a fucking liar and a confused one at that DonP Nov 2012 #88

link provided. You will see 2 posters names on this thread(its a long one) about the confederacy graham4anything Nov 2012 #90

I did not see anything about Pave supporting the flag gejohnston Nov 2012 #91

At no time in that thread did I "back... the confederate army/dixie flag". PavePusher Nov 2012 #92

100% amnesty and citizenship for all immediately. Just like President Lincoln did after the war. graham4anything Nov 2012 #94

No one's bullying you, and you demean actual bullying victims. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #95

Interesting deflection, but not relevent to your accusations of me. PavePusher Nov 2012 #105

Post removed Post removed Nov 2012 #110

You have not yet quoted my "backing of the confederate army/dixie flag on a different thread".... PavePusher Nov 2012 #111

hate to break it to you gejohnston Nov 2012 #108

Clearly history and honesty are not his forte DonP Nov 2012 #113

You are being too kind to him ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #115

It's a legal word, mein Herr. Callisto32 Nov 2012 #126

Your assertion of Pave defending the Confederate flag is a lie. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #93

the posts made by others are most certainly NOT defending the North and my President Lincoln graham4anything Nov 2012 #96

You're both offensively wrong and avoiding the truth of it. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #97

My young age? I sure wish that were true. Youth is wasted on the young as Ralph Kramden said graham4anything Nov 2012 #98

edit to above- graham4anything Nov 2012 #99

Excellent. Your teacher taught regurgitation, not substance. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #101

No, actually quite the opposite. You have your opinion, I will keep mind. graham4anything Nov 2012 #102

Wrong again. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #103

There are two sides to all wars. graham4anything Nov 2012 #104

I'll break it down very slowly for you. Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #100

You do know that Lincoln was a Repub. oneshooter Nov 2012 #106

things have changed. Like the Whigs. Todays Dems are Yesterdays Repubs. (and vice versa). graham4anything Nov 2012 #107

Your deflection is irrelevent to the lies you have told. PavePusher Nov 2012 #109

He/She is gone from the thread, locked out DonP Nov 2012 #118

who Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #189

And there is a Mayor Mike worshiper available at all times to incoherently jump into threads ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #33

You're an extreme prohibitionist. We get it.nt Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #41

not at all Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #167

the burden is on you to prove gejohnston Nov 2012 #170

Before divvying up the "facts," this one stands out: I was responding to Graham4... Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #188

Samuel Adams had people just like you in mind when he said ... DonP Nov 2012 #52

+1000000 glacierbay Nov 2012 #54

Nonsense Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #168

Not even close DonP Nov 2012 #181

Still singing the praises of a right wing anti-labor asshole eh? Union Scribe Nov 2012 #71

Amazing, the 24/7/365 prohibitionist postings... Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #151

You mean these gun people? glacierbay Nov 2012 #153

And yet they do Baldr Odinson Dec 2012 #195

Easy explaination sarisataka Dec 2012 #196

notice I said "assault rifles or other machine guns" gejohnston Dec 2012 #197

News Flash ... holdencaufield Nov 2012 #2

What does a bank being robbed in a Wally World have to do with gun sales at that store? oneshooter Nov 2012 #3

Stop making sense Berserker Nov 2012 #8

There are air bubbles chuffing in my toilet, that's what! Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #42

carry pattern Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #60

it is possible for someone to buy a gun at the store, and then use it at the store for a robbery. gejohnston Nov 2012 #61

That's got to be the stupidest post ever. rrneck Nov 2012 #64

Those dots can't be connected..... PavePusher Nov 2012 #68

"WalMart is notorious as the first place people with newly issued carry Jenoch Nov 2012 #75

When you purchase a long arm at Wall Mart. oneshooter Nov 2012 #78

What's the point of your post? tortoise1956 Nov 2012 #4

BAN Walmart parking lots! Berserker Nov 2012 #6

" If you don't want to DIE FASTER carry a weapon to protect yourself I do." darkangel218 Nov 2012 #7

Real women & men walk away alive from a fight.Guns only inflate a situation. graham4anything Nov 2012 #12

Has Penicide suddenly become a public epidemic? tortoise1956 Nov 2012 #13

The people were going to rob themselves? At gunpoint? Sounds like the sheriff graham4anything Nov 2012 #14

Sorry, I assumed you had a basic understanding English-language grammar tortoise1956 Nov 2012 #17

I just spent 2 weeks without electricity on a dark block and guess what? graham4anything Nov 2012 #18

Seriously, sorry to hear that tortoise1956 Nov 2012 #20

electric came back on, and a few days ago cable/internet, but many still much worse off in NJ/NY graham4anything Nov 2012 #27

How did you watch I love Lucy with no electricity? NT Trunk Monkey Nov 2012 #32

on my battery operated DVD player graham4anything Nov 2012 #37

Glad to hear you made it. NT Trunk Monkey Nov 2012 #51

Lucille Ball ... holdencaufield Nov 2012 #36

You cannot say what her opinion would be today though. graham4anything Nov 2012 #38

Hertz Doughnut holdencaufield Nov 2012 #40

Wow glacierbay Nov 2012 #26

It was actually about racism and the movie a satire on the old west mentality graham4anything Nov 2012 #39

it was a satire of western movies gejohnston Nov 2012 #50

of course it did. Mel Brooks never keeps his movies to one single subject. graham4anything Nov 2012 #55

It has been years since I've watched it gejohnston Nov 2012 #57

No, but a pubic epidemic may occur.nt Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #43

Self-defense stories tend to be like exaggerated fishing stories Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #159

rabidly? gejohnston Nov 2012 #164

penis shootings? yes they're rare Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #169

so? gejohnston Nov 2012 #171

No one here Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #173

you have not gejohnston Nov 2012 #178

I always run from a fight Berserker Nov 2012 #22

That's kinda hard on the twins... tortoise1956 Nov 2012 #28

Real women & men walk away alive from a fight ?? Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #24

Another supporter of throwing yourself on the mercy of perp ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #34

About a million and a half people every year would disagree with you. Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 #45

Re: Real women & men walk away alive from a fight. Trunk Monkey Nov 2012 #53

Yeah, because they have a fast draw or fast feet. n/t krispos42 Nov 2012 #59

One more straw-man. Can't you come up with something new? AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #79

NOT a strawman Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #161

some countries do gejohnston Nov 2012 #166

Not really very good comparisons Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #174

actually they are gejohnston Nov 2012 #176

Chuck e Cheese is another crime/criminal assault hotbed for some reason... -..__... Nov 2012 #11

Issue beans to all employees n/t Glaug-Eldare Nov 2012 #15

They'll be blazing away for sure. Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #44

Ban young poor parents who can't afford to take their offspring anywhere better slackmaster Nov 2012 #47

"men walked into the bank armed with pistols and demanded cash" Eagle_Eye Nov 2012 #16

they were armed with rifles. n/t Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 #48

Finally their 100 pack of federal 223 went down 5 bucks. ileus Nov 2012 #19

what part of Bank do you not understand? Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #25

What does a bank robbery have to do with WalMart selling firearms? PavePusher Nov 2012 #30

He has been worse... ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #35

People don't rob Walmart bank branches because the store sells guns slackmaster Nov 2012 #46

Thank you Willie Sutton. A professionlal stating the obvious truth Ntxt DonP Nov 2012 #56

So bank robbery is now classified as a "firearm incident" ileus Nov 2012 #49

would you like this firearms incident better? Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #62

I'm not sure what you want WalMart to do about criminals. PavePusher Nov 2012 #67

There are lots of things they could do Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #163

what illegal conduct? gejohnston Nov 2012 #165

WalMart was NOT complying with the requirements for proper gun sales Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #172

what requirements and by required by whom? gejohnston Nov 2012 #177

Not a problem Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #179

non binding agreements, gejohnston Nov 2012 #180

WalMart has a long history of corrupt practices, and should not be taken at face value Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #183

who said I was a defender of Wal Mart gejohnston Nov 2012 #184

Interesting goal-post moving. You may want to let the rest of us catch up..... PavePusher Nov 2012 #186

"failing to comply with legal provisions" PavePusher Nov 2012 #185

To your 3 points. Glassunion Nov 2012 #182

Another non-story that has zero to do with walmart. ileus Nov 2012 #69

Sigh ... Straw Man Nov 2012 #70

Recced your own blog spam. rrneck Nov 2012 #58

Actually they average better than then rest. Glassunion Nov 2012 #72

You *had* to go and derail a perfectly good rant by doing the math. friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #73

except that most of the firearms accidents, injuries, and killings are not only aout bank robberies Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #134

they occur in the parking lots gejohnston Nov 2012 #143

"other big box retailers do NOT have this kind of frequency PavePusher Nov 2012 #148

and here is another gun incident at another WalMart Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #80

attention walmart shoppers. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #81

And you still haven't made a connection between a common business... PavePusher Nov 2012 #84

nothing to do with being robbed more frequently or not; you appear to be deliberately missing it Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #114

You've given no evidence that supports your assertions. PavePusher Nov 2012 #116

Haven't figured out yet that 'anecdote' isn't synonymous with 'data' yet, have you? friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #117

I'm waiting for any data from you Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #120

Do you only focus on Wal Mart or do you also gejohnston Nov 2012 #121

So, what is it about Wal Mart that attracts firearms tomfoolery? nt rrneck Nov 2012 #122

Nothing to do with the fact they have 4,200+ stores in the US, eh? friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #123

Your post is like a frickin Henny Youngman punch line as far as data goes. Except Henny was funny. DonP Nov 2012 #119

At least that event actually happened at Walmart. ManiacJoe Nov 2012 #89

Oh crap - it's ... "Posted by Baldr Odinson" - sound familiar? DonP Nov 2012 #82

I don't think so Glassunion Nov 2012 #112

*All* the posts are by Baldr Odinson- It's MikeyB, for sure friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #124

wrong again Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #125

That's not what it says on the blog. All posts are by "Baldr Odinson"... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #128

so? Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #129

Interesting; half of the OP is undeniable-the other half, unprovable. friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #130

Back on DU2 rrneck Nov 2012 #141

Excellent observation... ileus Nov 2012 #127

wrong again 2 Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #131

Oooooooooooooookay. ileus Nov 2012 #154

Oh, look........and here is another one Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #132

Once again you conflate 'number' and 'rate' friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #135

all Wal Marts combined? gejohnston Nov 2012 #139

Leaps of logical faith. Glassunion Nov 2012 #133

No other comparable retailer Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #136

Math is not your friend- this is "Concealed Carry Killers' redux... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #137

even WalMart admits they have a problem Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #138

but they refuse to do anything because it will not provide security gejohnston Nov 2012 #140

They're the largest retailer in the US, they're going to have more crime than any other chain. friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #145

you are not actually looking at the cause gejohnston Nov 2012 #142

No other comparable retailer? Glassunion Nov 2012 #144

Costco isn't even close Baldr Odinson Nov 2012 #146

Welcome to DU and I hope you enjoy the site. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #147

No, not even close ... Straw Man Nov 2012 #149

Not an excuse Baldr Odinson Dec 2012 #193

I actually agree with you on this gejohnston Dec 2012 #198

49 shootings at 4200+ Walmarts. That's about 1 for every 85 Walmarts. friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #155

Comparable retailers? Straw Man Nov 2012 #150

Nice try, but off the mark. Baldr Odinson Dec 2012 #192

Yours is the rawest form of prohibitionist animosity... Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #152

What does WM do to encourage concealed/open carry in their stores? GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #207

I want to help Berserker Nov 2012 #156

you missed this one from 2008 gejohnston Nov 2012 #157

In the artical Berserker Nov 2012 #158

there are the other non-gun killings at WalMarts Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #160

how classist of you gejohnston Nov 2012 #162

4-2 to leave this post. Thread in Meta... msanthrope Nov 2012 #175

Here is the synopsis Dog Gone at Penigma Nov 2012 #187

Well said! Baldr Odinson Dec 2012 #194

Walmart shoplifter shot - update Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #190

Color me confused... sarisataka Dec 2012 #191

Do YOU think this guy, whether a real cop or a rent a cop, should be shooting shoplifters? Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #199

Seriously -- what more proof do you need here? Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #200

it had nothing to do with public safety gejohnston Dec 2012 #202

for example? gejohnston Dec 2012 #201

they have a long list of law suits that they have settled, admitting guilt - notably the examples I Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #203

law suits are about money gejohnston Dec 2012 #205

there are still settlement Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #206

there doesn't have to be wrong doing in a civil suit gejohnston Dec 2012 #208

That I can fully agree with sarisataka Dec 2012 #204