Gun Control & RKBA

Blue_Tires

(57,596 posts)

36. From everything I've read so far, it's only going one way at this point...

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:01 PM

Nov 2012

Personally, I don't know how you ditch a shotgun at a gas station with witnesses (and presumably security cameras) in the few minutes it takes before the EMTs and cops arrive...And if there WAS a shotgun, why wasn't it used in justified retaliation once Dunn fired his shots?

I'm just playing around, because we both know his "shotgun" excuse is pure bullshit--and don't think the cops didn't search the Durango long and hard for weapons and drugs...If you haven't already, you can get more backstory from the Florida Times-Union and Jacksonville's ABC affiliate...

And I'm curious; since someone brought it up in another thread but I didn't get an answer: What possible answer to "Turn the music down" would make someone mad or scared enough to kill?

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Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black Teen [View all] SecularMotion Nov 2012 OP

But once again, it was not, HIS GROUND, and he STARTED it. CBGLuthier Nov 2012 #1

Exactly. peacebird Nov 2012 #2

It's Florida... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #4

Very hateful of you, going after a blue state... Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #10

Florida is, at best, purple... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #16

according to linked articles gejohnston Nov 2012 #20

I will be very happy to see Dunn Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #24

The law, even in FL, does what you desire ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #45

Had there been no public outcry Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #57

The police department and DA were clearly imperfect...they accepted self defense ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #66

I oppose SYG laws ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #58

Your summary of SYG is incorrect ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #65

I should have added ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #68

The early hearing is FL unique and still requires documenting the elements of self defense ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #73

In Texas ALL shootings go before a Grand Jury. oneshooter Nov 2012 #86

Zimmerman has nothing to do with it gejohnston Nov 2012 #64

You don't understand SYG or self-defense law either. GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #30

If you say so.... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #35

We don't have to say so, the Law does. PavePusher Nov 2012 #41

What we will wait for is an indictment, a trial Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #53

Urmm ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #59

That presumption is rebuttable - The perception of a threat has to be reasonable for the defense... slackmaster Nov 2012 #67

True ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #69

Yes, but that's not the case in this incident slackmaster Nov 2012 #71

I think you are confusing Stand Your Ground with Castle Doctrine ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #72

For someone who sees things in black and white, purple is in some sense refreshing... Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #99

I see very little in "black and white". Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #100

Well, there is a lot of stuff from MSM about "license to kill...." Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #103

As I said the Texas Law is a good example Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #105

actually it does, gejohnston Nov 2012 #106

From the text of the FL SYG Law Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #115

because the evidence leaned toward's Zimmerman's favor gejohnston Nov 2012 #116

Actually, it didn't. Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #118

wrong gejohnston Nov 2012 #119

Well, Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #121

I sure as hell didn't hear that... Blue_Tires Nov 2015 #140

I could live with a Texas-type change in SYG laws. Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #107

LMAO.... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #108

My Mom and her folks settled in Polk-Pasco Co. areas, starting in Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #126

How wonderful! Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #128

Ha! I like the "damned Yankee" definition. The unfortunate thing about death... Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #130

Life in Florida Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #131

My Dad, usually reticent in personal matters, told me this about his father... Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #132

That was your grandfather speaking Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #133

LOL! And I heard it twice from him once. Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #134

LMAO Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #136

Likewise! Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #138

"The FL SYG law is so broadly written it is little more than a license to kill." PavePusher Nov 2012 #109

From the text of the law Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #114

your image is from stock charactors from movies and TV gejohnston Nov 2012 #117

I have lived in FL Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #120

that hasn't been my experiance on the west coast gejohnston Nov 2012 #122

I live in Palm Beach County Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #123

I'm from Wyoming, gejohnston Nov 2012 #124

That must have been Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #125

So, in other words, it does not say at all what you claimed.... PavePusher Dec 2012 #137

Law seems to be working, right? Being tried for murder... Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #8

Poor families of both people. safeinOhio Nov 2012 #3

What if it was justified? n/t krispos42 Nov 2012 #17

Anything short of: Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #18

Justified? Politicalboi Nov 2012 #26

Oh, come on. krispos42 Nov 2012 #28

Nothing wrong with asking at all, BUT... Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #29

Or if the response to your request makes you scared enough to start shooting... krispos42 Nov 2012 #32

From everything I've read so far, it's only going one way at this point... Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #36

I don't know, either. krispos42 Nov 2012 #50

What if their response to your request is to become violent? GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #33

Of course, Dunn isn't saying there was an "aggressive action" Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #40

I am just pointing out that you left out a possibility. GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #51

Don't you think ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #60

entirely possible krispos42 Nov 2012 #70

oh come on noiretextatique Nov 2012 #78

I agree. krispos42 Nov 2012 #81

Drive away and leave his wife inside the store? N/T GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #31

The point of it is, he could have just ignored and endured it for the couple of minutes Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #42

Personally, I would have endured it in silence. GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #54

Correct on all counts sarisataka Nov 2012 #63

I always carry a fresh pair of squishy ear plugs with me for just that reason... slackmaster Nov 2012 #80

I agree. Or turn on 100 watts... Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #104

What utter bovine excrement. yeswehavenobananas Dec 2012 #129

I'm pretty sure the one who "didn't know how to behave" was the shooter Blue_Tires Dec 2012 #139

We'll see when all the facts come out.. pipoman Nov 2012 #5

Not being a lawyer, or even sober, this guy safeinOhio Nov 2012 #7

How is that different than any other law pipoman Nov 2012 #11

On ignorance of the law... Callisto32 Nov 2012 #23

Are you saying ignorance of the law pipoman Nov 2012 #85

Criminal intent (mens rea) is at the core of common law crimes, I would say. Callisto32 Nov 2012 #113

Hold your horses, safeinOhio. We have no way of knowing his state of mind at the time. slackmaster Nov 2012 #14

Its not SYG, its self defense ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #46

Bull.... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #25

Perhaps you should learn what SYG really does, and doesn't do. GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #37

Sure it does... That's why it took Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #39

IIRC, neither Z- or his lawyers have ever invoked SYG. PavePusher Nov 2012 #43

The police initially Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #52

Ummm, your link is inoperative. PavePusher Nov 2012 #110

I will retreat if I reasonable can. GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #44

SYG, IMHO, has caused as many problems as it has solved. Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #55

It is extremely doubtful that you would do that. GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #61

LOL...Of course I would not do that...but Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #77

It seems to me like this 'SYG' business should be decided by a jury, not by police at the scene rbixby Nov 2012 #56

It is not at all decided by the police. It is decided by the local prosecuter... PavePusher Nov 2012 #111

Simple pipoman Nov 2012 #89

If what we've heard about the case so far is correct, JoeyT Nov 2012 #6

The way it reads this isn't going to float trying to use SYG. ileus Nov 2012 #9

It seems Berserker Nov 2012 #12

an impartial Florida jury will sort it out. trouble.smith Nov 2012 #13

You may get dog-piled for posting that without a sarcasm tag, but I hope you are right. slackmaster Nov 2012 #15

What's one-sided about it? Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #19

I was talking Berserker Nov 2012 #112

Would never have happened if the fool hadn't been carrying a gun. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #21

So it's unreasonable to approach black men playing loud music... krispos42 Nov 2012 #34

Never touch a black man's radio ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #47

I would not say he got "lucky". On the contrary. Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #49

it's completely unreasonable to kill someone because of loud music noiretextatique Nov 2012 #79

That's probably the case. krispos42 Nov 2012 #82

not so sure about that noiretextatique Nov 2012 #84

True, but that's a systemic problem. krispos42 Nov 2012 #90

Oh, here we go: Dunn allegedly saw a shottie on the backseat... Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #22

"So Counselor ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #62

Can't tell from the video WinniSkipper Nov 2012 #27

Seems unlikely that he will be able to make that case. Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 #38

That is my take as well. Does not meet the self defense standard ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #48

Drove away from a shooting scene. safeinOhio Nov 2012 #74

I didn't make that connection. Makes it more obvious indeed. Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 #96

We shall see Glassunion Nov 2012 #75

Florida is a Stupid State HockeyMom Nov 2012 #76

Here in Minnesota a guy just shot and killed two teenagers, The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2012 #83

um...yeah, that guy is a sadistic sociopath Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #87

That is Castle Doctrine, not SYG. GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #91

Exactly. The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2012 #92

shooting or stabbing a wounded person gejohnston Nov 2012 #93

Exception is multiple shots during a single attempt to shoot the intruder ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #94

Here in MN sarisataka Nov 2012 #95

I don't really understand what all this is about. oneshooter Nov 2012 #88

If you're having trouble understanding, catch up with the backstory here: Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #97

Umm, I believe oneshooter negelected the 'sarcasm' tag. friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #98

I have to believe there is video of the event (gas station parking lot) aikoaiko Nov 2012 #101

Life without parole madokie Nov 2012 #102

Perhaps we could stick with the bottom line here: classof56 Nov 2012 #127

Another racist douchebag with a gun will soon be on death row. jpak Dec 2012 #135