Gun Control & RKBA

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)

139. And you were doing *so* well up until those last two lines..

Fri Jan 20, 2012, 02:48 AM

Jan 2012

I think we need to be common sense here: there need to be high standards, and the current control regime isn't it.

What definition of "common sense" would apply? What "high standards" would those be, and what specifically is wrong with the "current control regime"?

College campuses are very sensitive places and like hospitals need to be treated as such, anything less is denial.

College campuses and hospitals are not crime-free oases, and CCW holders don't seem to become especially trigger happy once they cross campus boundaries
or stop in at the ED waiting room, so wherein lies the problem?

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Guns and colleges make formula for tragedy [View all] ellisonz Jan 2012 OP

I see no problem with the "mix." nt SteveW Jan 2012 #1

guns kill people...we all agree on that right? ileus Jan 2012 #2

I say you need to ban booze first. Common Sense Party Jan 2012 #3

Doesn't seem to be a problem on the 50 or so campuses that allow it now. X_Digger Jan 2012 #4

The Chief got it right: "It sounds good, like the Lone Ranger, but that�s not real life." Hoyt Jan 2012 #5

Perhaps the Chief can cite his supporting stats. PavePusher Jan 2012 #26

The Chief probably has a bit more experience than you in these matters. Hoyt Jan 2012 #29

Judgiing by his assumptions/assertions, apparently not. PavePusher Jan 2012 #34

Yea I know, you "gun culture" guys have all that training to shoot people. Hoyt Jan 2012 #35

I've never made that claim, or anything close to it. PavePusher Jan 2012 #42

Again, I'm not advocating a police state. And, if you carry a gun to thwart that, you can leave Hoyt Jan 2012 #53

In real life the sign on the door didn't stop killers. E6-B Jan 2012 #28

Nor has a bunch of cowboys packing heat helped. Hoyt Jan 2012 #30

Well, there's the problem: a shortage of cowboys. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #31

Well, except in cases like the Appalachian Law School and Pearl Mississippi where it did of course. DonP Jan 2012 #32

Then there is Suzanna Hupp in a Luby's Cafeteria E6-B Jan 2012 #37

You still don't get it -- all these gun culture guys buying/carrying guns pollutes society with them Hoyt Jan 2012 #38

So there isn't a single example of anything bad actually ever happening with a CCW on campus? DonP Jan 2012 #41

You sound just like a Temperance Advocate claiming alcohol "pollutes" Society. MicaelS Jan 2012 #43

Ignorance and dark age thinking pollutes society. E6-B Jan 2012 #47

Carrying guns in public is not a modern or progressive idea. Hoyt Jan 2012 #52

So you keep saying. ManiacJoe Jan 2012 #55

Yes, we know, we know: They're polluting our precious bodily fluids. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #59

Prove it. E6-B Jan 2012 #60

Reasoned thinking isn't the strength with these cowboys... ellisonz Jan 2012 #61

Cartoons are proof? E6-B Jan 2012 #75

Editorial cartoons are representative of the mainstream thought of society on this issue. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #81

Yeah, sure they are. LAGC Jan 2012 #102

Right-wing money. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #103

Where's all the money to counter it? LAGC Jan 2012 #104

Democrats were out fundraised every election until 2004... ellisonz Jan 2012 #105

Your way vs My way E6-B Jan 2012 #36

Do you think guns and police officers mix? TheWraith Jan 2012 #6

I think police officers are well trained and heavily screened. ellisonz Jan 2012 #62

you think gejohnston Jan 2012 #65

You don't even want... ellisonz Jan 2012 #68

not snark, statement of fact gejohnston Jan 2012 #71

I'm talking about situational shooting...not just accuracy. ellisonz Jan 2012 #80

different situations gejohnston Jan 2012 #89

Let's stick to CCW's in public situations... ellisonz Jan 2012 #92

how is it for show gejohnston Jan 2012 #94

Actually, it is rather easy. GreenStormCloud Jan 2012 #99

Uh, posting other people's snark is not Union Scribe Jan 2012 #146

Being a master of snark... ellisonz Jan 2012 #151

Seriously have you ever seen a police gun? E6-B Jan 2012 #160

I don't know... Glassunion Jan 2012 #7

"12% of the adult population the last time I checked has a license to carry"? Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #11

I'm talking in PA. Glassunion Jan 2012 #14

That's an odd piece of knowledge you claim, TPaine7 Jan 2012 #15

I am personally aquatinted with 2 Asian people. Glassunion Jan 2012 #16

I'm talking about friends. Not acquaintances. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #18

So you only associate with people like yourself. GreenStormCloud Jan 2012 #20

Birds of a feather and all that. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #21

I associate with a wide variety of people... ellisonz Jan 2012 #22

Anyone who doesn't is either a monk or a hermit. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #56

I'm sure everyone you know that was old enough voted for McGovern... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #44

Paulene Kael probably didn't know anyone that owned a handgun either (ntxt) DonP Jan 2012 #51

"What happens if the person misses?" krispos42 Jan 2012 #8

Nothing happens because of the NRA and their Republican friends... ellisonz Jan 2012 #63

Police have different training krispos42 Jan 2012 #70

"they'd better make the training cheap or free." ellisonz Jan 2012 #86

Nice dodge-attempt, but we see what you did there. PavePusher Jan 2012 #116

"We" ellisonz Jan 2012 #119

A. No, I don't. PavePusher Jan 2012 #121

Good for you. ellisonz Jan 2012 #123

I admit it's tempting... PavePusher Jan 2012 #124

Just like all good propaganda, light on facts, appeals to emotions. E6-B Jan 2012 #129

Just like slavery, the KKK never gave up on racism and went underground. E6-B Jan 2012 #149

"so do anti-gunners continue to hide thier illegal desires and goals." ellisonz Jan 2012 #150

Exercising a right is not illegal, you only think it is. E6-B Jan 2012 #152

I thought you wanted responsible gun owners? krispos42 Jan 2012 #118

The government is broke... ellisonz Jan 2012 #120

So you want gun owners,universally, to be required to have police-level training and skills... krispos42 Jan 2012 #133

Yeah, if you want to carry... ellisonz Jan 2012 #134

There are regulations for hunters. But hunters do not have to go to training. krispos42 Jan 2012 #135

"spent would save at best... what, a dozen lives a year?" ellisonz Jan 2012 #136

Let's talk who is a better starship captain, Kirk or Picard E6-B Jan 2012 #148

How much does training cost? krispos42 Jan 2012 #153

That's for profit. And of course this is all hypothetical. ellisonz Jan 2012 #154

so you like all of that authoritarian stuff? gejohnston Jan 2012 #155

European welfare state socialism? ellisonz Jan 2012 #156

read beyond the title gejohnston Jan 2012 #157

Oy Vey ellisonz Jan 2012 #158

distinction without a difference. gejohnston Jan 2012 #161

And I've established that owning a gun... krispos42 Jan 2012 #165

I think making sure that people who want to carry... ellisonz Jan 2012 #166

I don't have a problem with basic training krispos42 Jan 2012 #167

We're supposed to "stop fighting this culture war amongst ourselves" because his side is losing. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #168

Antonin Scalia just helped to gut part of the Patriot Act friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #170

Militia is not the National Guard or National Military E6-B Jan 2012 #147

I think gejohnston Jan 2012 #72

Think you missed the point.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #73

Do you really want to use the militia argument? E6-B Jan 2012 #77

My high school had a rifle team, we carried our guns right into the building. There was no problem. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #9

In my high school we had rifles and field artillery Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #10

When I got to college, I was required to be in ROTC, they wouldn't let us Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #12

Nothing in that story a good fact checker couldn't fix. ManiacJoe Jan 2012 #13

Chief Crate's comment is significant: Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #17

Guns are just as appropriate on college campuses as on main street. Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #19

If they are a "formula for tragedy," then it must be a lousy formula. mvccd1000 Jan 2012 #23

I think the are not a problem rl6214 Jan 2012 #24

I find this quote melm00se Jan 2012 #25

Some LEO rarely train. E6-B Jan 2012 #50

So we could tax you... ellisonz Jan 2012 #64

Nice idea, tax me and take my guns. That happened in 1776 too, it didn't work. E6-B Jan 2012 #78

You do realize... ellisonz Jan 2012 #82

Whell there are some 70 campuses that allow concealed weapons. oneshooter Jan 2012 #27

Going to hide and ignore again? A question was asked, oneshooter Jan 2012 #40

We *know* that question will never be answered, or examples given friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #45

I just believe he is a coward for not answering. oneshooter Jan 2012 #48

I do post elsewhere than the Gungeon. ellisonz Jan 2012 #67

Then simply answer the question. oneshooter Jan 2012 #112

I did answer your question... ellisonz Jan 2012 #115

So you admit that there has been NO problems with CHL oneshooter Jan 2012 #130

False logic argument E6-B Jan 2012 #49

I thought there might be at least one or two examples. CCW holders aren't saints... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #54

In that case he could have the cojones to admit he was wrong. oneshooter Jan 2012 #57

Ms. Abraham certainly won't admit she's wrong. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #58

Wanna have the cojones to admit you were being ignorant here: ellisonz Jan 2012 #69

Just getting back to you... ellisonz Jan 2012 #66

aka, "Don't bother me with facts, son, I'm on a roll!" X_Digger Jan 2012 #74

I like how oneshooter complains about me not responding... ellisonz Jan 2012 #83

When you dodge like keanu, expect a response. n/t X_Digger Jan 2012 #87

Just saying... ellisonz Jan 2012 #88

If you want a private conversation, take it to PM. X_Digger Jan 2012 #91

which reminds me gejohnston Jan 2012 #76

You're not presenting facts... ellisonz Jan 2012 #85

but at least gejohnston Jan 2012 #93

I don't think you understand what the word "empirical" means in the context of sociology. ellisonz Jan 2012 #96

actually I have gejohnston Jan 2012 #98

No. ellisonz Jan 2012 #101

my sociologists never gejohnston Jan 2012 #114

Well then, how about some *historical* evidence that the practice of on-campus CCW is bad? friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #125

I'm not opposed to it if there are very high standards and additional training... ellisonz Jan 2012 #126

What "additional training" do you think is necessary? friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #127

Well it's not like there's any peer-review studies on this issue... ellisonz Jan 2012 #128

I think the results you came up with explain why: It's simply not a problem. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #137

Compiling statistics such as that is no easy matter... ellisonz Jan 2012 #138

And you were doing *so* well up until those last two lines.. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #139

That would be your opinion... ellisonz Jan 2012 #140

And those would be yours, and you are perfectly entitled to them friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #143

Wasn't difficult... ellisonz Jan 2012 #144

But in this case its relatively easy because of the Clery Act aikoaiko Jan 2012 #171

Deep deep denial. Do you realize that the militia argument is dead? Heller v DC. E6-B Jan 2012 #79

Do you realize the Supreme Court has overturned itself before? ellisonz Jan 2012 #84

You say that as though someone has asserted that the two are mutually exclusive.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #90

I'll answer you as directly as I can... ellisonz Jan 2012 #95

It appears that you just don't want strict scrutiny, so.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #97

Just to pan your counter... ellisonz Jan 2012 #100

That was the point sailing over your head.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #106

Whatever... ellisonz Jan 2012 #107

Mine comes from established jurisprudence.. Yours? Not entirely sure. n/t X_Digger Jan 2012 #108

Courtesy of Scalia and company... ellisonz Jan 2012 #109

Courtesy of every court since the Slaughterhouse cases (1873). X_Digger Jan 2012 #110

Oh please... ellisonz Jan 2012 #111

*sigh* The point went right over your head again, didn't it.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #113

If the vast majority of people can do it... ellisonz Jan 2012 #117

Oh for fuck's sake X_Digger Jan 2012 #122

Expect this slimy logic from gun grabbers. E6-B Jan 2012 #131

Let's see that genetic fallacy applied to *this* Scalia opinion friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #169

Challenge prejudice. Francis Marion Jan 2012 #163

Yup, just like there is room for a little bit of slavery. E6-B Jan 2012 #132

Not a problem - at least it hasn't been on a number of campuses that ALREADY allow it. OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2012 #33

Are cops really much better than me? E6-B Jan 2012 #39

If some drunken college sports asshole tries to beat me to death, I want my gun for self defense. AtheistCrusader Jan 2012 #46

"Gun free" campuses have historically been so safe. Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #141

Thanks in no part to gun sick society. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #142

"Thanks in large part to the fact Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #145

Sick is when people no longer know right and wrong, fair and unfair. E6-B Jan 2012 #159

If I may follow this line of thought........ Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #164

Fallacy number one: Francis Marion Jan 2012 #162