Gun Control & RKBA

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)

68. They have grossly exagerated the costs to society.

Reply to Dog Gone at Penigma (Reply #64)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 09:04 AM

Dec 2012

Like all such articles it assumes that guns are purely cost with no benefits. When a Defensive Gun Use stops a crime, that is a benefit. However, such benefits are extremely difficult to calculate, but they are real.

$5 million per gun homicide? Sorry, but that is waaaay too high. Over 50% of homicide victims are themselves part of the violent criminal sub-culture. Their "lost work" is criminal activity that doesn't happen. $3 million in "pain & suffering & lost quality of life" for a dead felon? What about the savings of that same thing from his furture victims who are then saved from being his victims?

Even if it is an honest citizen that is murdered, they must only be caluclating the cost of 1%ers being murdered.

SNIP
In Baltimore, during the last year, 91% of murder victims were themselves criminals.

SNIP

"The group compiled statistics on victims' criminal histories for the first time and found that 77% of homicide victims in the past two years had an average of nearly 12 arrests."

I think the CDC should recalculate. It isn't an economic loss to society when a thug with 12 arrests in two years gets killed. It is a large money savings.

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gun violence control through mandatory liability insurance and taxation - from Forbes [View all] Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 OP

That's exactly what we need TheMoreYouKnow Dec 2012 #1

since we are talking about Forbes gejohnston Dec 2012 #5

yep nt Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #7

So, you claim to know what an entire magazine wants? Or are you just mindreading the author? Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #64

I have read the magizine often enough to know gejohnston Dec 2012 #66

They have grossly exagerated the costs to society. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #68

You have to show something more than your best guess Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #89

I proved to you that most murder victims are themselves criminals. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #90

No, you have proven no such thing Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #94

If you are talking about the Kellermann study gejohnston Dec 2012 #98

apparently you have no respect for the role that Medical examiners play in criminology Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #100

especially ones who are shills gejohnston Dec 2012 #102

Oh, national review has declined tremendously since the days of Buckly. Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #103

no one said suicidal kids are criminals. gejohnston Dec 2012 #104

Bloomberg too. JohnnyBoots Dec 2012 #96

Remember Blair Mountain. jeepnstein Dec 2012 #15

Why? Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #67

The company men... jeepnstein Dec 2012 #70

I'm sure that criminals will be lining up to insure their illegal guns. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #2

it will affect criminals, indirectly Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #20

Because no black market would ever explode into existance.... PavePusher Dec 2012 #84

the people who are committing the violence gejohnston Dec 2012 #3

incorrect gejohnston Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #21

the analysis I have seen were gejohnston Dec 2012 #26

I refer you to all of the research on the topic of substitution in means of suicides (or lack of it) Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #63

you made the claim first gejohnston Dec 2012 #65

Wrong. Clames Dec 2012 #101

On this I agree with you. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #106

stats and stick figures Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #107

since the CDC lists defensive gun uses gejohnston Dec 2012 #109

Forbes: 1%ers telling the rest of us how to live. N/T GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #4

1%ers telling the rest of us how to live are very popular with that lot these days friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #10

Is this contributer a 1%er? Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #22

the target audience is gejohnston Dec 2012 #27

Another punish the honest first solution... ileus Dec 2012 #6

Oh please. Don't make us listen to this nonsense. BlueStreak Dec 2012 #34

Existing liability policies generally cover damage from accidental or negligent discharges slackmaster Dec 2012 #8

My rental does, too. bobclark86 Dec 2012 #9

that would likely change in the event that more gun owners sought liability insurance Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #23

because such shootings are too low for gejohnston Dec 2012 #28

I would bet that most gun owners have a liability policy right now slackmaster Dec 2012 #33

You are assuming most people carry liability insurance... Toronto Dec 2012 #46

Liability insurance that covered only gun-related incidents would be extremely inexpensive slackmaster Dec 2012 #71

I believe gun insurance Toronto Dec 2012 #81

FBI reports "Hands, fists, feet, etc." commit 5.7% of murders, Rifles and Shotguns for 5.4%. jody Dec 2012 #11

Good idea EC Dec 2012 #12

riders, or changing more policies to all risk, or adding guns as a named risk Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #24

There is no such thing as an insurance policy that covers murder ... Toronto Dec 2012 #52

1% drivel. Liability insurance takes away responsibility and accountability. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #13

+1 this ^^^ :) n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #16

you are correct about one thing gejohnston Dec 2012 #17

how do you figure that? Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #25

I see no reduction in gun violence by being insured against liability. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #82

requiring liability insurance Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #83

I'm not interested in a discussion on the economics of gun ownership. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #91

the goal isn't really public safety gejohnston Dec 2012 #92

I agree. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #111

so you don't get it - allow me to explain Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #93

most guns start out as legal ones gejohnston Dec 2012 #99

No, I get it and I disagree. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #105

Are you kidding me? discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #14

I'm guessing the article is more about gejohnston Dec 2012 #18

With this: discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #19

suicides and law enforcement deaths only account for a fraction Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #30

a different post, but one that expands on possible ways it could improve things Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #31

LCAV gejohnston Dec 2012 #40

car deaths are falling mostly because of gejohnston Dec 2012 #35

Suicides are well more than half. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #37

I think you're headed in the wrong direction discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #45

Decoding CDC-speak. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #73

Thanks :) discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #74

I had a $800 gun stolen while doing everything the restrictionists want me to do. PavePusher Dec 2012 #85

My point was... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #86

Ah, got it. Thanks for clearing that up! n/t PavePusher Dec 2012 #88

Each person killed by a firearm, no matter how.... Toronto Dec 2012 #47

in the US, gejohnston Dec 2012 #49

For the sake of argument Toronto Dec 2012 #51

The vast majority of murder victims do have criminal records. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #69

I am aware of: discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #72

Liability insurance tax added to ammunition purchase randr Dec 2012 #29

making ammo purchasers show proof of insurance for the gun Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #32

how would microstamping work? gejohnston Dec 2012 #36

No, they don't need to purchase ammo. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #38

Never heard of anyone shot dead with a bluff randr Dec 2012 #39

To actually use it they will need some ammo, but not much. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #42

You must be overlooking the entire clips unloaded Toronto Dec 2012 #48

since they don't get their guns legally, gejohnston Dec 2012 #50

It's all a plot by the insurance companies dickthegrouch Dec 2012 #41

Life insurance does pay for suicide, if after the first two years. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #43

Liability policies universally exclude payouts for damages caused by criminal acts by... slackmaster Dec 2012 #44

that is true with a few exceptions Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #62

That's where a Victims Indemnity Fund Toronto Dec 2012 #53

since most of the gang violence including drive bys gejohnston Dec 2012 #54

I somehow doubt that long gun owners would Toronto Dec 2012 #55

many of those also own handguns gejohnston Dec 2012 #56

I don't have any facts and figures related to the type of drugs Toronto Dec 2012 #57

assuming the AR didn't come from NYPD gejohnston Dec 2012 #58

Not all guns deaths result from crimes Toronto Dec 2012 #60

accidental deaths are very rare gejohnston Dec 2012 #61

You will excuse the late reply, but it was 2 am EST, the time Toronto Dec 2012 #78

Yes it is the prohibition gejohnston Dec 2012 #79

Funny you should say that, Toronto Dec 2012 #80

You don't know Fudds like I know Fudds. jeepnstein Dec 2012 #75

The civilian population if the U.S. is rearming itself... Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #76

I used to have a Smith model 19. It'll do the job. nt rrneck Dec 2012 #110

Is suicide by leaping off a bridge 'bridge violence'? 'gravity violence'? AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #59

Very bad idea... Puha Ekapi Dec 2012 #77

I agree - impose insurance requirement - I've started a petition at WhiteHousePetitions. Please HELP wanttosavetheplanet Dec 2012 #87

Petition away.. pipoman Dec 2012 #108

Imagine that.. pipoman Dec 2012 #95

a billionare trying to create a new source of income backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #97