Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

Toronto

(183 posts)
78. You will excuse the late reply, but it was 2 am EST, the time
Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:28 PM
Dec 2012

of my last post.

I think that rural people treat their guns with respect because for rural people guns have a distinct purpose besides self defense. To people in rural areas guns are tools like any others, and so are given the appropriate care and attention. Rural children are taught to respect guns and not treat them like toys. Urban and sub-urban dwellers don't think like rural people. They live in a disposable, consumeristic world. If something is stolen, it can be replaced, with no thought as to what became of it after it was stolen. It's just another piece of replaceable property. The proof of that is the number of unlawful guns in circulation. Urban people are far less likely to teach their children about guns - in part because they don't respect them themselves. Many guns are purchased by urban citizens on a whim - a passing thought that it may come in handy one day. No attention paid to appropriate storage, cleaning or training.

I don't deny the connection between drugs and guns. But if it were not drugs, it would be something else, for the criminal element will always find something that is in short supply, or some way to manipulate the weaknesses in society. Drugs fulfill that purpose very well. Police expend massive resources already trying to eradicate dealers from the street. Prisons are full of them, but for every one they put away, there is one to replace them, because the dealers come from a world where they live without purpose and without any hope of a purpose in the future. What's that old saying about idle hands. Society tries to hold the drug dealers and drug addicts accountable, by imprisoning them. You can't tax or license or charge insurance for something that isn't legal to begin with. In the long run it is more expensive to jail them than to leave them alone, except for the fact that the drugs they sell end up in the hands of the average school kids, and some of them die or become addicts themselves. So society keeps shelling out hard earned tax dollars to chase them down and imprison them. Unfortunately it doesn't work, but no one wants to do what it would really take to eliminate the problem, and that is to address poverty, particularly in big cities.

The "drug culture" as you call it, is primarily confined to the poorer elements of society. Sure, some people of means use drugs recreationally, but the most common recreational drug is marijuana and truth be told, it has fewer harmful affects than alcohol. Just like during the time of prohibition, it was the prohibition that attracted the criminal element. Perhaps if they made it legal, it could be taxed and regulated like alcohol and tobacco. It's hard to keep something out of peoples hands that grows from seeds. It's not called "weed" for nothing. It would in fact become a profitable cash crop for farmers. I doubt however, that the seriously addictive concoctions coming out of the illegal drug labs can ever become legal, because of the severe health consequences. The only logical conclusion is that society wants the ability to choose to be high at some point or other and perhaps the solution is to create harmless drugs that fulfill that purpose, squeezing out the criminal element. Then they could tax, license and charge insurance - what we call sin tax. I don't know if this is the response that you are looking for, but it's the best I can come up with.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

That's exactly what we need TheMoreYouKnow Dec 2012 #1
since we are talking about Forbes gejohnston Dec 2012 #5
yep nt Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #7
So, you claim to know what an entire magazine wants? Or are you just mindreading the author? Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #64
I have read the magizine often enough to know gejohnston Dec 2012 #66
They have grossly exagerated the costs to society. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #68
You have to show something more than your best guess Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #89
I proved to you that most murder victims are themselves criminals. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #90
No, you have proven no such thing Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #94
If you are talking about the Kellermann study gejohnston Dec 2012 #98
apparently you have no respect for the role that Medical examiners play in criminology Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #100
especially ones who are shills gejohnston Dec 2012 #102
Oh, national review has declined tremendously since the days of Buckly. Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #103
no one said suicidal kids are criminals. gejohnston Dec 2012 #104
Bloomberg too. JohnnyBoots Dec 2012 #96
Remember Blair Mountain. jeepnstein Dec 2012 #15
Why? Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #67
The company men... jeepnstein Dec 2012 #70
I'm sure that criminals will be lining up to insure their illegal guns. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #2
it will affect criminals, indirectly Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #20
Because no black market would ever explode into existance.... PavePusher Dec 2012 #84
the people who are committing the violence gejohnston Dec 2012 #3
incorrect gejohnston Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #21
the analysis I have seen were gejohnston Dec 2012 #26
I refer you to all of the research on the topic of substitution in means of suicides (or lack of it) Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #63
you made the claim first gejohnston Dec 2012 #65
Wrong. Clames Dec 2012 #101
On this I agree with you. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #106
stats and stick figures Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #107
since the CDC lists defensive gun uses gejohnston Dec 2012 #109
Forbes: 1%ers telling the rest of us how to live. N/T GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #4
1%ers telling the rest of us how to live are very popular with that lot these days friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #10
Is this contributer a 1%er? Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #22
the target audience is gejohnston Dec 2012 #27
Another punish the honest first solution... ileus Dec 2012 #6
Oh please. Don't make us listen to this nonsense. BlueStreak Dec 2012 #34
Existing liability policies generally cover damage from accidental or negligent discharges slackmaster Dec 2012 #8
My rental does, too. bobclark86 Dec 2012 #9
that would likely change in the event that more gun owners sought liability insurance Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #23
because such shootings are too low for gejohnston Dec 2012 #28
I would bet that most gun owners have a liability policy right now slackmaster Dec 2012 #33
You are assuming most people carry liability insurance... Toronto Dec 2012 #46
Liability insurance that covered only gun-related incidents would be extremely inexpensive slackmaster Dec 2012 #71
I believe gun insurance Toronto Dec 2012 #81
FBI reports "Hands, fists, feet, etc." commit 5.7% of murders, Rifles and Shotguns for 5.4%. jody Dec 2012 #11
Good idea EC Dec 2012 #12
riders, or changing more policies to all risk, or adding guns as a named risk Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #24
There is no such thing as an insurance policy that covers murder ... Toronto Dec 2012 #52
1% drivel. Liability insurance takes away responsibility and accountability. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #13
+1 this ^^^ :) n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #16
you are correct about one thing gejohnston Dec 2012 #17
how do you figure that? Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #25
I see no reduction in gun violence by being insured against liability. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #82
requiring liability insurance Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #83
I'm not interested in a discussion on the economics of gun ownership. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #91
the goal isn't really public safety gejohnston Dec 2012 #92
I agree. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #111
so you don't get it - allow me to explain Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #93
most guns start out as legal ones gejohnston Dec 2012 #99
No, I get it and I disagree. Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #105
Are you kidding me? discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #14
I'm guessing the article is more about gejohnston Dec 2012 #18
With this: discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #19
suicides and law enforcement deaths only account for a fraction Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #30
a different post, but one that expands on possible ways it could improve things Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #31
LCAV gejohnston Dec 2012 #40
car deaths are falling mostly because of gejohnston Dec 2012 #35
Suicides are well more than half. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #37
I think you're headed in the wrong direction discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #45
Decoding CDC-speak. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #73
Thanks :) discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #74
I had a $800 gun stolen while doing everything the restrictionists want me to do. PavePusher Dec 2012 #85
My point was... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #86
Ah, got it. Thanks for clearing that up! n/t PavePusher Dec 2012 #88
Each person killed by a firearm, no matter how.... Toronto Dec 2012 #47
in the US, gejohnston Dec 2012 #49
For the sake of argument Toronto Dec 2012 #51
The vast majority of murder victims do have criminal records. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #69
I am aware of: discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #72
Liability insurance tax added to ammunition purchase randr Dec 2012 #29
making ammo purchasers show proof of insurance for the gun Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #32
how would microstamping work? gejohnston Dec 2012 #36
No, they don't need to purchase ammo. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #38
Never heard of anyone shot dead with a bluff randr Dec 2012 #39
To actually use it they will need some ammo, but not much. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #42
You must be overlooking the entire clips unloaded Toronto Dec 2012 #48
since they don't get their guns legally, gejohnston Dec 2012 #50
It's all a plot by the insurance companies dickthegrouch Dec 2012 #41
Life insurance does pay for suicide, if after the first two years. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #43
Liability policies universally exclude payouts for damages caused by criminal acts by... slackmaster Dec 2012 #44
that is true with a few exceptions Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 #62
That's where a Victims Indemnity Fund Toronto Dec 2012 #53
since most of the gang violence including drive bys gejohnston Dec 2012 #54
I somehow doubt that long gun owners would Toronto Dec 2012 #55
many of those also own handguns gejohnston Dec 2012 #56
I don't have any facts and figures related to the type of drugs Toronto Dec 2012 #57
assuming the AR didn't come from NYPD gejohnston Dec 2012 #58
Not all guns deaths result from crimes Toronto Dec 2012 #60
accidental deaths are very rare gejohnston Dec 2012 #61
You will excuse the late reply, but it was 2 am EST, the time Toronto Dec 2012 #78
Yes it is the prohibition gejohnston Dec 2012 #79
Funny you should say that, Toronto Dec 2012 #80
You don't know Fudds like I know Fudds. jeepnstein Dec 2012 #75
The civilian population if the U.S. is rearming itself... Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #76
I used to have a Smith model 19. It'll do the job. nt rrneck Dec 2012 #110
Is suicide by leaping off a bridge 'bridge violence'? 'gravity violence'? AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #59
Very bad idea... Puha Ekapi Dec 2012 #77
I agree - impose insurance requirement - I've started a petition at WhiteHousePetitions. Please HELP wanttosavetheplanet Dec 2012 #87
Petition away.. pipoman Dec 2012 #108
Imagine that.. pipoman Dec 2012 #95
a billionare trying to create a new source of income backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #97
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»gun violence control thro...»Reply #78