Gun Control & RKBA

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,720 posts)

132. "...the Constitution can be amended."

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:16 PM

Dec 2012

Agreed, no arguments here. Legal expertise agrees that principle strengths of the Constitution are its simplicity and its ability to change. That same legal expertise agrees that the rights summarized in the Bill of Rights are acknowledged and protected therein, but neither granted nor assigned nor delegated. Changing or eliminating the 2A would not change man's fundamental right to keep and bear arms. If we simply deleted the 2A tomorrow, it could be successfully argued that the same right is protected by the 10A.

In summary, rights are attributes of people like the rights to life and liberty. Having a thinking mind is an attribute of people. You can form a government that ignores them, many have gone before, but why would you want to?

Have a great New Year.

I'll be around.

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If the Democrats pass and Obama signs a new AWB would you still support Dems? [View all] morningfog Dec 2012 OP

Hell yes! Ban personal possession of the goddamned assault weapons. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #1

What he said.....in spades. shraby Dec 2012 #5

+1,000,000,000!! lastlib Jan 2013 #203

Of course. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #2

I'm not a single issue voter. discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #3

All the Dems I've voted for are pro-gun, so I don't have to worry about it. LAGC Dec 2012 #4

+1 Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #110

Huh? Am I missing something in your post? Dawgs Dec 2012 #6

There are plenty here on DU who don't. I agree with you, though. morningfog Dec 2012 #7

USA Today did a poll that said most don't gejohnston Dec 2012 #10

Please define "assault weapon". n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #12

Easy. One weapon that can kill many people in a very short period of time. Dawgs Dec 2012 #20

Since those weapons... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #24

Obviously "no citizens" is everyone but the military - not necessarily the police. Dawgs Dec 2012 #43

Please define... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #46

The military has always been different than citizens. You look it up if you don't believe me. n/t Dawgs Dec 2012 #76

How should I phrase this? discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #84

try this: how can one be in the military and NOT be a citizen? Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #111

You could have a... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #135

I look at England... and patrol officers don't carry guns. iiibbb Dec 2012 #62

Okay. Dawgs Dec 2012 #75

I get the feeling that no reason would be good enough for you. iiibbb Dec 2012 #61

Yep. But you're wrong that there are MANY things. Dawgs Dec 2012 #65

I feel like having conversations with people who bother to educate themselves about definitions. iiibbb Dec 2012 #91

LOL! So, instead of giving me a reason, you pretend that I don't know what I'm talking about. Dawgs Dec 2012 #92

I have reasons... and the debate is woth having... just not with you. iiibbb Dec 2012 #93

Nope. I'm the winner, and you're the fool. Dawgs Dec 2012 #95

Todd Akin probably thought he won the rape debates... "women's bodies shut that thing down" iiibbb Dec 2012 #96

Ooh! You got me. Dawgs Dec 2012 #97

What's the point of discussing something with someone who doesn't think definitions matter? iiibbb Dec 2012 #100

You should probably... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #98

I have a good argument for it ..... oldhippie Dec 2012 #104

The internet is for porn iiibbb Dec 2012 #124

Sorry, but you didn'y "win" anything, unless it was the "most ignorant reply so far" award Ghost in the Machine Jan 2013 #165

I'll give you a point ..... oldhippie Dec 2012 #103

Why should I support a revocation of a Constitutional Right? jeepnstein Dec 2012 #13

Agreed~! aptal Jan 2013 #155

define "assault weapon" --- last time they did it was a big fat fail iiibbb Dec 2012 #16

Why not include getting rid of guns that can kill 30 people in less than a minute? Dawgs Dec 2012 #21

they should do the same with sports cars gejohnston Dec 2012 #22

That's idiotic. Dawgs Dec 2012 #26

not at all gejohnston Dec 2012 #30

Holy shit. You're actually trying to defend your initial response. Dawgs Dec 2012 #40

obviously you don't know gejohnston Dec 2012 #45

You're still trying? Wow!! Dawgs Dec 2012 #73

it isn't legal to walk around drunk in any state gejohnston Dec 2012 #78

Huh? It is illegal to "walk around" drunk in every state? Dawgs Dec 2012 #80

where? gejohnston Dec 2012 #85

Amazing how I not one person will explain why they "need" an assault weapon (my definition of one). Dawgs Dec 2012 #94

Your definition is unworkable iiibbb Dec 2012 #106

Because laws are about definitions iiibbb Dec 2012 #25

Fuck it. Let's not even try. Dawgs Dec 2012 #28

People like you always end conversations with "people like you" iiibbb Dec 2012 #36

See post #28. n/t Dawgs Dec 2012 #42

You say I say fuck it", but you essentally tell us "fuck you"... and the stalemate continues. iiibbb Dec 2012 #51

The passing of laws... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #44

If there were a practical law, that would end some of these nightmare shootings... iiibbb Dec 2012 #50

re: "... practical or enforceable..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #69

your comment is bordering on racism:"people like you". Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #112

Bigotted; Gun owners are not a "race" whether (s)he thinks we're knuckle dragging Neadertals or not iiibbb Dec 2012 #119

yes, correct and therefore DOWNRIGHT BIGOTED STATEMENT/ no borders to that comment and it would Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #120

But.. aptal Jan 2013 #156

Considering the repukes are the majority in the House hack89 Dec 2012 #8

Of course, especially so if the ban has real teeth. Scuba Dec 2012 #9

I may be against the ban Diane Feinstein has proposed as too vague and intrusive... bobclark86 Dec 2012 #11

+1 n/t Ashgrey77 Dec 2012 #88

+1 :) n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #89

I'd hold my nose and vote "D". Again. JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #14

I'm a bit over the barrel. iiibbb Dec 2012 #15

Of course I will. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #17

I'd support different Dems, I suppose krispos42 Dec 2012 #18

Bingo Pullo Dec 2012 #23

4 million NRA members many of which approve of reasonable gun laws among 250 million voters. julian09 Dec 2012 #32

define reasonable gejohnston Dec 2012 #48

The proposed Feinstein ban is anything BUT "reasonable" n/t Pullo Dec 2012 #131

This +1 rl6214 Dec 2012 #146

Of course I will. rrneck Dec 2012 #19

This message was self-deleted by its author ann--- Dec 2012 #27

Of course but that doesnt go far enough bowens43 Dec 2012 #29

Please see #34 Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #35

When pigs fly. blue burro Jan 2013 #214

Not stopping there. Darque Wing Dec 2012 #31

If you ever get "influential" don't ever publicly endorse a good Democrat. Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #34

Really? Darque Wing Dec 2012 #37

it won't save lives gejohnston Dec 2012 #41

More right-wing idiocy. Darque Wing Dec 2012 #49

here is the thing gejohnston Dec 2012 #56

The Kleck study? Darque Wing Dec 2012 #58

two things gejohnston Dec 2012 #67

Debunked. Thoroughly. Darque Wing Dec 2012 #70

prove it gejohnston Dec 2012 #72

One-sided Darque Wing Dec 2012 #74

given that the FSU was peer reviewed and given an award from his professional society gejohnston Dec 2012 #77

Wow, that sure is a lot of effort to support a faulty argument from authority. Darque Wing Dec 2012 #82

I did gejohnston Dec 2012 #87

Statistics is not voodoo. Darque Wing Dec 2012 #109

welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay - Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #115

*cough*, *cough*...seagull poster..., *ahem* friendly_iconoclast Jan 2013 #162

Fine. My mistake. Darque Wing Jan 2013 #169

are you serious? gejohnston Dec 2012 #118

Florida State is a joke among criminologists? Yeah, about that.... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2013 #161

Who's sock puppet are you? rl6214 Dec 2012 #147

Why do you think I'm a sock puppet? Darque Wing Jan 2013 #168

Do you *really* think "I'm like the only person in the world suggesting a full ban... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2013 #185

So first... Darque Wing Jan 2013 #186

You are also demonstrably careless- I'm not the one insinuating you're a sock puppet friendly_iconoclast Jan 2013 #188

Oh, jeez. Darque Wing Jan 2013 #191

You re bitching about word choice when you decided you had to be the word nazi rl6214 Jan 2013 #205

You opened the door. Darque Wing Jan 2013 #206

Also, Darque Wing Jan 2013 #192

I wonder why? Puha Ekapi Jan 2013 #196

Why? Darque Wing Jan 2013 #207

I can see how you think of "this place"...as a "cesspool" rl6214 Jan 2013 #215

Sorry, bud, that doesn't fly. Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #200

Really? Darque Wing Jan 2013 #208

Yes. Really. Go ahead and try repeal. Recruit, fund raise, form action committees, Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #210

Ally? Darque Wing Jan 2013 #212

Perhaps that "rigidity" is closer to home. Most Americans support the Second... Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #213

is there such a thing as a first world country? gejohnston Dec 2012 #39

More empty right-wing talking points. Darque Wing Dec 2012 #47

I have been in those countries too gejohnston Dec 2012 #52

So you'd rather have corpses than living victims. Darque Wing Dec 2012 #57

you obviously did not comprehend what I said gejohnston Dec 2012 #59

NRA apologist Darque Wing Dec 2012 #68

I don't even belong to the NRA gejohnston Dec 2012 #71

AAAANNNND bobclark86 Dec 2012 #136

What argument? Darque Wing Jan 2013 #170

The only part I agree with is that it would take a change to the 2nd amendment iiibbb Dec 2012 #54

I'm not trying to get away with anything. Darque Wing Dec 2012 #64

According to... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #55

Yeah, I've taken Constitutional Law, thank you. Darque Wing Dec 2012 #66

Tell me... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #81

Tell me... Darque Wing Dec 2012 #83

Asked and answered... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #86

Not set in stone. Darque Wing Dec 2012 #107

I'm out at moment... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #114

"...the Constitution can be amended." discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #132

Right. So let's not try. Darque Wing Jan 2013 #172

regarding... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #173

What does it matter? Darque Wing Jan 2013 #174

I'm sorry you feel that way... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #175

You think this is compromise? Darque Wing Jan 2013 #177

You bring up a good point... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #184

The one thing they're right about Darque Wing Jan 2013 #189

One thing that you and I are right about... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #195

Oh, don't get me wrong... Darque Wing Jan 2013 #209

Sorry that your experience has been negative. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2013 #211

Glad to hear that you've taken Constitutional Law, and know about Article V. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2013 #149

Once again, naked condescension without a point. Darque Wing Jan 2013 #171

Have and will again. They'll need all the help they can get for being stupid. Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #33

Of course sarisataka Dec 2012 #38

1) Yes. 2) Still yes. 3) Yes. 4) I don't have a "line in the sand" on this single topic petronius Dec 2012 #53

Yes of course I would vote Dem. The gun lobby is a paper tiger. upaloopa Dec 2012 #60

voters aren't iiibbb Dec 2012 #101

Gun voters all ready vote repug if we lose some upaloopa Dec 2012 #102

"... if we lose some some Dems it is worth it." oldhippie Dec 2012 #105

We won't lose. There aren't enough of you and the majority upaloopa Dec 2012 #116

Enjoy... brindleboxer Dec 2012 #108

You so over estimate yourselves. upaloopa Dec 2012 #117

In case you haven't been paying attention... brindleboxer Dec 2012 #121

"gun culture" that you abhor so much upaloopa Jan 2013 #158

yes reverend_tim Dec 2012 #63

Yes. You should make this a poll. Kaleva Dec 2012 #79

Unfortunately... brindleboxer Dec 2012 #90

a more interesting question, but less probable would be gejohnston Dec 2012 #99

It's Lugar, and he got the boot for not being batshit insane enough for the teabaggers. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2013 #151

my typo gejohnston Jan 2013 #153

I thought you had put this group on Ignore. Why the change? I notice you have not replied to anyone Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #113

I really hope it does not get.... Puha Ekapi Dec 2012 #122

Hopefully our party won't bite on bans after years of 2A progress. ileus Dec 2012 #123

The problem we're facing... brindleboxer Dec 2012 #125

The right is no different... iiibbb Dec 2012 #144

You damn right I would madokie Dec 2012 #126

I've never owned or seen the need to own a gun! Pyrzqxgl Dec 2012 #127

all of the hunters I know, and was taught as a kid by hunters gejohnston Dec 2012 #129

Absolutely. Arctic Dave Dec 2012 #128

I think we all agree with gun safety legistlation gejohnston Dec 2012 #130

And you say you don't like "buzzwords". Arctic Dave Dec 2012 #133

you didn't, we seem to have different definitions gejohnston Dec 2012 #134

Well then, I would say I am for both. Arctic Dave Dec 2012 #137

With all due respect... iiibbb Dec 2012 #141

I demand... brindleboxer Dec 2012 #142

OMG the gun nut version of a internet "grammar nazi". Arctic Dave Jan 2013 #180

There is a difference between 1911 metalurgy and you still not getting the term "magazine" correct. iiibbb Jan 2013 #181

Point proven. Arctic Dave Jan 2013 #190

Well there is this................ oneshooter Jan 2013 #193

LOL, another one. Arctic Dave Jan 2013 #197

Not every Democrat is a good person, as you might have noticed with this one blue burro Dec 2012 #138

A campaign guide called "Deer hunting with Jesus"! Kaleva Dec 2012 #139

Loved this... brindleboxer Dec 2012 #140

You do realize it didn't actually ban possession of either guns or magazines? Kennah Dec 2012 #143

I will not support any politician who advocates for restrictions on my 2nd Amendment rights. Llewlladdwr Dec 2012 #145

Just take gun control off the party platform. DemDealer Dec 2012 #148

But then... brindleboxer Jan 2013 #150

By solving actual problems that the government is neglecting, DemDealer Jan 2013 #152

As long as it doesn't affect anything other than semi-autos and doc03 Jan 2013 #154

As it is currently proposed... brindleboxer Jan 2013 #157

I just can't imagine any kind of gun control getting through the House n/t doc03 Jan 2013 #159

Me either... brindleboxer Jan 2013 #160

+1 You are probably right we will get labeled gun grabbers doc03 Jan 2013 #163

I think we would gain more votes gejohnston Jan 2013 #164

I know what an assault rifle is and what the government doc03 Jan 2013 #166

I don't gejohnston Jan 2013 #167

So my m92 Winchesters become "assault weapons"? oneshooter Jan 2013 #178

I said semiautos with more than 6 rounds period. doc03 Jan 2013 #182

You also said................ oneshooter Jan 2013 #194

Do you really need a thirty round magazine in a lever action doc03 Jan 2013 #198

who said anythig about thirty rounds? gejohnston Jan 2013 #199

Your lack of knowledge is showing. oneshooter Jan 2013 #204

Thank you for your concern. aquart Jan 2013 #176

Would I be charged with assisting suicide? nt HooptieWagon Jan 2013 #179

Yes. But only because the alternative is wrong on so many more issues. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #183

Not One Born just us Jan 2013 #187

In a f***ing second Not Me Jan 2013 #201

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #202