Gun Control & RKBA

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)

161. distinction without a difference.

Sat Jan 21, 2012, 01:14 PM

Jan 2012

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/fact-sheet-extraordinary-rendition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition_by_the_United_States

any misrepresentation is unintentional.

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Guns and colleges make formula for tragedy [View all] ellisonz Jan 2012 OP

I see no problem with the "mix." nt SteveW Jan 2012 #1

guns kill people...we all agree on that right? ileus Jan 2012 #2

I say you need to ban booze first. Common Sense Party Jan 2012 #3

Doesn't seem to be a problem on the 50 or so campuses that allow it now. X_Digger Jan 2012 #4

The Chief got it right: "It sounds good, like the Lone Ranger, but that�s not real life." Hoyt Jan 2012 #5

Perhaps the Chief can cite his supporting stats. PavePusher Jan 2012 #26

The Chief probably has a bit more experience than you in these matters. Hoyt Jan 2012 #29

Judgiing by his assumptions/assertions, apparently not. PavePusher Jan 2012 #34

Yea I know, you "gun culture" guys have all that training to shoot people. Hoyt Jan 2012 #35

I've never made that claim, or anything close to it. PavePusher Jan 2012 #42

Again, I'm not advocating a police state. And, if you carry a gun to thwart that, you can leave Hoyt Jan 2012 #53

In real life the sign on the door didn't stop killers. E6-B Jan 2012 #28

Nor has a bunch of cowboys packing heat helped. Hoyt Jan 2012 #30

Well, there's the problem: a shortage of cowboys. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #31

Well, except in cases like the Appalachian Law School and Pearl Mississippi where it did of course. DonP Jan 2012 #32

Then there is Suzanna Hupp in a Luby's Cafeteria E6-B Jan 2012 #37

You still don't get it -- all these gun culture guys buying/carrying guns pollutes society with them Hoyt Jan 2012 #38

So there isn't a single example of anything bad actually ever happening with a CCW on campus? DonP Jan 2012 #41

You sound just like a Temperance Advocate claiming alcohol "pollutes" Society. MicaelS Jan 2012 #43

Ignorance and dark age thinking pollutes society. E6-B Jan 2012 #47

Carrying guns in public is not a modern or progressive idea. Hoyt Jan 2012 #52

So you keep saying. ManiacJoe Jan 2012 #55

Yes, we know, we know: They're polluting our precious bodily fluids. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #59

Prove it. E6-B Jan 2012 #60

Reasoned thinking isn't the strength with these cowboys... ellisonz Jan 2012 #61

Cartoons are proof? E6-B Jan 2012 #75

Editorial cartoons are representative of the mainstream thought of society on this issue. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #81

Yeah, sure they are. LAGC Jan 2012 #102

Right-wing money. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #103

Where's all the money to counter it? LAGC Jan 2012 #104

Democrats were out fundraised every election until 2004... ellisonz Jan 2012 #105

Your way vs My way E6-B Jan 2012 #36

Do you think guns and police officers mix? TheWraith Jan 2012 #6

I think police officers are well trained and heavily screened. ellisonz Jan 2012 #62

you think gejohnston Jan 2012 #65

You don't even want... ellisonz Jan 2012 #68

not snark, statement of fact gejohnston Jan 2012 #71

I'm talking about situational shooting...not just accuracy. ellisonz Jan 2012 #80

different situations gejohnston Jan 2012 #89

Let's stick to CCW's in public situations... ellisonz Jan 2012 #92

how is it for show gejohnston Jan 2012 #94

Actually, it is rather easy. GreenStormCloud Jan 2012 #99

Uh, posting other people's snark is not Union Scribe Jan 2012 #146

Being a master of snark... ellisonz Jan 2012 #151

Seriously have you ever seen a police gun? E6-B Jan 2012 #160

I don't know... Glassunion Jan 2012 #7

"12% of the adult population the last time I checked has a license to carry"? Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #11

I'm talking in PA. Glassunion Jan 2012 #14

That's an odd piece of knowledge you claim, TPaine7 Jan 2012 #15

I am personally aquatinted with 2 Asian people. Glassunion Jan 2012 #16

I'm talking about friends. Not acquaintances. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #18

So you only associate with people like yourself. GreenStormCloud Jan 2012 #20

Birds of a feather and all that. Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #21

I associate with a wide variety of people... ellisonz Jan 2012 #22

Anyone who doesn't is either a monk or a hermit. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #56

I'm sure everyone you know that was old enough voted for McGovern... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #44

Paulene Kael probably didn't know anyone that owned a handgun either (ntxt) DonP Jan 2012 #51

"What happens if the person misses?" krispos42 Jan 2012 #8

Nothing happens because of the NRA and their Republican friends... ellisonz Jan 2012 #63

Police have different training krispos42 Jan 2012 #70

"they'd better make the training cheap or free." ellisonz Jan 2012 #86

Nice dodge-attempt, but we see what you did there. PavePusher Jan 2012 #116

"We" ellisonz Jan 2012 #119

A. No, I don't. PavePusher Jan 2012 #121

Good for you. ellisonz Jan 2012 #123

I admit it's tempting... PavePusher Jan 2012 #124

Just like all good propaganda, light on facts, appeals to emotions. E6-B Jan 2012 #129

Just like slavery, the KKK never gave up on racism and went underground. E6-B Jan 2012 #149

"so do anti-gunners continue to hide thier illegal desires and goals." ellisonz Jan 2012 #150

Exercising a right is not illegal, you only think it is. E6-B Jan 2012 #152

I thought you wanted responsible gun owners? krispos42 Jan 2012 #118

The government is broke... ellisonz Jan 2012 #120

So you want gun owners,universally, to be required to have police-level training and skills... krispos42 Jan 2012 #133

Yeah, if you want to carry... ellisonz Jan 2012 #134

There are regulations for hunters. But hunters do not have to go to training. krispos42 Jan 2012 #135

"spent would save at best... what, a dozen lives a year?" ellisonz Jan 2012 #136

Let's talk who is a better starship captain, Kirk or Picard E6-B Jan 2012 #148

How much does training cost? krispos42 Jan 2012 #153

That's for profit. And of course this is all hypothetical. ellisonz Jan 2012 #154

so you like all of that authoritarian stuff? gejohnston Jan 2012 #155

European welfare state socialism? ellisonz Jan 2012 #156

read beyond the title gejohnston Jan 2012 #157

Oy Vey ellisonz Jan 2012 #158

distinction without a difference. gejohnston Jan 2012 #161

And I've established that owning a gun... krispos42 Jan 2012 #165

I think making sure that people who want to carry... ellisonz Jan 2012 #166

I don't have a problem with basic training krispos42 Jan 2012 #167

We're supposed to "stop fighting this culture war amongst ourselves" because his side is losing. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #168

Antonin Scalia just helped to gut part of the Patriot Act friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #170

Militia is not the National Guard or National Military E6-B Jan 2012 #147

I think gejohnston Jan 2012 #72

Think you missed the point.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #73

Do you really want to use the militia argument? E6-B Jan 2012 #77

My high school had a rifle team, we carried our guns right into the building. There was no problem. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #9

In my high school we had rifles and field artillery Starboard Tack Jan 2012 #10

When I got to college, I was required to be in ROTC, they wouldn't let us Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #12

Nothing in that story a good fact checker couldn't fix. ManiacJoe Jan 2012 #13

Chief Crate's comment is significant: Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #17

Guns are just as appropriate on college campuses as on main street. Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #19

If they are a "formula for tragedy," then it must be a lousy formula. mvccd1000 Jan 2012 #23

I think the are not a problem rl6214 Jan 2012 #24

I find this quote melm00se Jan 2012 #25

Some LEO rarely train. E6-B Jan 2012 #50

So we could tax you... ellisonz Jan 2012 #64

Nice idea, tax me and take my guns. That happened in 1776 too, it didn't work. E6-B Jan 2012 #78

You do realize... ellisonz Jan 2012 #82

Whell there are some 70 campuses that allow concealed weapons. oneshooter Jan 2012 #27

Going to hide and ignore again? A question was asked, oneshooter Jan 2012 #40

We *know* that question will never be answered, or examples given friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #45

I just believe he is a coward for not answering. oneshooter Jan 2012 #48

I do post elsewhere than the Gungeon. ellisonz Jan 2012 #67

Then simply answer the question. oneshooter Jan 2012 #112

I did answer your question... ellisonz Jan 2012 #115

So you admit that there has been NO problems with CHL oneshooter Jan 2012 #130

False logic argument E6-B Jan 2012 #49

I thought there might be at least one or two examples. CCW holders aren't saints... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #54

In that case he could have the cojones to admit he was wrong. oneshooter Jan 2012 #57

Ms. Abraham certainly won't admit she's wrong. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #58

Wanna have the cojones to admit you were being ignorant here: ellisonz Jan 2012 #69

Just getting back to you... ellisonz Jan 2012 #66

aka, "Don't bother me with facts, son, I'm on a roll!" X_Digger Jan 2012 #74

I like how oneshooter complains about me not responding... ellisonz Jan 2012 #83

When you dodge like keanu, expect a response. n/t X_Digger Jan 2012 #87

Just saying... ellisonz Jan 2012 #88

If you want a private conversation, take it to PM. X_Digger Jan 2012 #91

which reminds me gejohnston Jan 2012 #76

You're not presenting facts... ellisonz Jan 2012 #85

but at least gejohnston Jan 2012 #93

I don't think you understand what the word "empirical" means in the context of sociology. ellisonz Jan 2012 #96

actually I have gejohnston Jan 2012 #98

No. ellisonz Jan 2012 #101

my sociologists never gejohnston Jan 2012 #114

Well then, how about some *historical* evidence that the practice of on-campus CCW is bad? friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #125

I'm not opposed to it if there are very high standards and additional training... ellisonz Jan 2012 #126

What "additional training" do you think is necessary? friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #127

Well it's not like there's any peer-review studies on this issue... ellisonz Jan 2012 #128

I think the results you came up with explain why: It's simply not a problem. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #137

Compiling statistics such as that is no easy matter... ellisonz Jan 2012 #138

And you were doing *so* well up until those last two lines.. friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #139

That would be your opinion... ellisonz Jan 2012 #140

And those would be yours, and you are perfectly entitled to them friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #143

Wasn't difficult... ellisonz Jan 2012 #144

But in this case its relatively easy because of the Clery Act aikoaiko Jan 2012 #171

Deep deep denial. Do you realize that the militia argument is dead? Heller v DC. E6-B Jan 2012 #79

Do you realize the Supreme Court has overturned itself before? ellisonz Jan 2012 #84

You say that as though someone has asserted that the two are mutually exclusive.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #90

I'll answer you as directly as I can... ellisonz Jan 2012 #95

It appears that you just don't want strict scrutiny, so.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #97

Just to pan your counter... ellisonz Jan 2012 #100

That was the point sailing over your head.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #106

Whatever... ellisonz Jan 2012 #107

Mine comes from established jurisprudence.. Yours? Not entirely sure. n/t X_Digger Jan 2012 #108

Courtesy of Scalia and company... ellisonz Jan 2012 #109

Courtesy of every court since the Slaughterhouse cases (1873). X_Digger Jan 2012 #110

Oh please... ellisonz Jan 2012 #111

*sigh* The point went right over your head again, didn't it.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #113

If the vast majority of people can do it... ellisonz Jan 2012 #117

Oh for fuck's sake X_Digger Jan 2012 #122

Expect this slimy logic from gun grabbers. E6-B Jan 2012 #131

Let's see that genetic fallacy applied to *this* Scalia opinion friendly_iconoclast Jan 2012 #169

Challenge prejudice. Francis Marion Jan 2012 #163

Yup, just like there is room for a little bit of slavery. E6-B Jan 2012 #132

Not a problem - at least it hasn't been on a number of campuses that ALREADY allow it. OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2012 #33

Are cops really much better than me? E6-B Jan 2012 #39

If some drunken college sports asshole tries to beat me to death, I want my gun for self defense. AtheistCrusader Jan 2012 #46

"Gun free" campuses have historically been so safe. Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #141

Thanks in no part to gun sick society. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #142

"Thanks in large part to the fact Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #145

Sick is when people no longer know right and wrong, fair and unfair. E6-B Jan 2012 #159

If I may follow this line of thought........ Simo 1939_1940 Jan 2012 #164

Fallacy number one: Francis Marion Jan 2012 #162