African American

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

16. This has been brought to Skinner's attention a number of times. The problem is

Thu Sep 10, 2015, 01:12 PM

Sep 2015

and I get it, is that lets say someone makes a personal attack on you in one of those groups. You or someone else should be able to alert and hide even if you aren't a member.

It's a very odd system. Because on the one hand, the hosts of the group have absolute power to lock posts and ban folks from the group, and it is a public banning because the list of folks banned is posted in the about this group page, but on the other, the rest of DU can alert on and sit in judgement of posts in that group.

That seems like a contradiction. Either the group should be a separate entity and treated as such or not, but you have these conflicting messages in terms of the ability to do things about what happens in a group.

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Irony Alert: I got an alert & hide in the Hillary Clinton group for talking about the alert stalking [View all] stevenleser Sep 2015 OP

It is not safe to post to any safe haven group anymore. leftofcool Sep 2015 #1

According skinner though the jury system is working better than when cstanleytech Sep 2015 #94

I dont think they are measuring the right things, which is a common issue stevenleser Sep 2015 #95

I do agree it would be interesting to learn if the math agrees with your opinion but cstanleytech Sep 2015 #96

See the OP lists. Those people had timeouts. Most of them never did before. nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #97

Yes but you did answer what if the actual alert statistics and logs do not agree cstanleytech Sep 2015 #98

See my #111 below for more. Do you think 80 Bernie supporters have received timeouts? stevenleser Sep 2015 #112

To be honest I dont track them, I dont think I have even made any posts there cstanleytech Sep 2015 #124

Please. That so doesn't wash. Nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #125

What part? That atleast some of the hides were not justified? cstanleytech Sep 2015 #130

You can always search the names in the OP, ZombieHorde Sep 2015 #135

What was "uncivil" about this ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #126

I said most of them I did not say "all" of them. cstanleytech Sep 2015 #128

Oh ... Okay. 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #129

Nah, you dont have docile just dont be uncivil. cstanleytech Sep 2015 #131

I have yet to see where any of my posts were "uncivil" ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #132

Well that one post I linked back to you that you linked to me cstanleytech Sep 2015 #133

Let me tell you WHY what you (and Skinner) are saying is so ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #137

No, its the method the site has to encourage its members to try and keep it civil. cstanleytech Sep 2015 #141

You're absolutely right and all the regulars here know it. Please don't bother further with that Number23 Sep 2015 #169

Hey!!!!! Number23 Sep 2015 #134

Yeah ... I got out last night; but, I'm still on paper ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #138

LOL, glad to see you back, and I have happily updated the OP. stevenleser Sep 2015 #139

Oh - you! JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #150

I hear you ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #151

Yeah - there's no point in having the discussion anymore JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #153

Actually tell your PO to give me a call. Maybe between the two of us we can break your DU habit Number23 Sep 2015 #168

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #174

And of course we have this post where Bobbie Jo got a hide for posting stevenleser Sep 2015 #140

No one said the jury system is perfect however skinner has pointed that the old system with cstanleytech Sep 2015 #142

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #143

We can't have POC get uppity and women forget their place here! stevenleser Sep 2015 #146

Thanks, steven Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #144

After the letter that Bravenak received and the deluge of OPs in GDP about her participation Number23 Sep 2015 #170

I tried to join that site but I am a Bernie supporter so I cant get them to respond to me randys1 Sep 2015 #172

SO glad to see you, 1sbm! Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #145

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #147

Perfect analogy Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #148

Back in the day, I worked for a Inmate Pre-release Program ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #149

I feel like JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #154

I feel you... I do. randys1 Sep 2015 #160

This message was self-deleted by its author jfern Oct 2015 #192

Very true. riversedge Sep 2015 #102

I got another warning ronnykmarshall Sep 2015 #118

What the hell for? randys1 Sep 2015 #119

Wait, warning? As in alert or hidden post or something else? stevenleser Sep 2015 #120

Bernie supporter calling out Hillary supporters in another forum ronnykmarshall Sep 2015 #121

I can't say anymore than K&R stonecutter357 Sep 2015 #2

I updated the list of folks silenced for Sanders criticism in the OP. If anyone can stevenleser Sep 2015 #3

I was banned from the Bernie group TeacherB87 Sep 2015 #127

I was banned there as well for insisting on not using the term Democrat Politician but randys1 Sep 2015 #173

I'd like to think those sometimes abrasive elements TeacherB87 Sep 2015 #175

It would not be a wonderful thing. You are imagining a scenario where he could govern. He couldn't. stevenleser Sep 2015 #177

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. TeacherB87 Sep 2015 #183

This is crazy. herding cats Sep 2015 #4

I think we are going to see a lot of 5-2 and 6-1 hides and here is why stevenleser Sep 2015 #5

It's all part of the same problem DU has had with women, black person, etc boston bean Sep 2015 #6

The word 'manificent' has always been a lovely, beautiful way to riversedge Sep 2015 #101

You may be onto something here. herding cats Sep 2015 #8

No, although having a star increases the likelihood you'll be called> KittyWampus Sep 2015 #20

That's right herding cats Sep 2015 #21

Yep, it is that simple. And the one thing SOME bernie fans are real testy about is this whole randys1 Sep 2015 #161

Add me to the list- been swarmed by the same folks and bettyellen Sep 2015 #7

They've got me twice and I'm sure attempted many more times. nt boston bean Sep 2015 #9

I've created another section of the OP for folks who were on a timeout for being critical of Bernie stevenleser Sep 2015 #10

I hope the lists in the OP, and they are growing, shock some folks stevenleser Sep 2015 #11

Kick & highly recommended! William769 Sep 2015 #12

I'm afraid it's not all in one direction. jeff47 Sep 2015 #13

It's all in one direction. Sanders supporters are 85% of DUers. They control juries. stevenleser Sep 2015 #14

Now. jeff47 Sep 2015 #18

No, it's not all in one direction. Jim Lane Sep 2015 #32

Extremely unlikely that four Clinton supporting jurors are seated in any juries here stevenleser Sep 2015 #42

A bit over one percent, I think Jim Lane Sep 2015 #50

Excellent explanation. n/t PoliticAverse Sep 2015 #83

No it isn't. stevenleser Sep 2015 #85

Before I saw that post I actually did a computer simulation of the issue and came up with PoliticAverse Sep 2015 #87

I wi find the actual formula by asking some math PhD friends I have. Nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #89

The basic problem can be phrased as follows: PoliticAverse Sep 2015 #90

Actually with the 85%/15% mix it would be extremely likely that such juries would happen. PoliticAverse Sep 2015 #79

No, it wouldn't. The odds are somewhere around 5000-1. stevenleser Sep 2015 #81

Assuming an 85% Sanders, 15% Clinton mix, a primary season of 365 days and 1 jury per day, PoliticAverse Sep 2015 #82

What math are you using to come up with that? Let's see it. On edit... stevenleser Sep 2015 #84

Read the following post... PoliticAverse Sep 2015 #86

I wi find the actual formula by asking some math PhD friends I have. Nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #88

You don't need a Ph.D. to do basic arithmetic. Jim Lane Sep 2015 #91

It's even more likely than you say because there are many more juries. Jim Lane Sep 2015 #92

By the way, that one juror was the troll with two accounts, one a Bernie supporter and one a Hillary stevenleser Sep 2015 #17

Yes, it's just a particularly egregious, yet brief, example. jeff47 Sep 2015 #19

It was a troll... you shouldn't be giving "Trolls" as an example of what a Hill supporter wrote. Cha Sep 2015 #44

Would you prefer this one? jeff47 Sep 2015 #46

You gave an example of a troll saying something stupid.. you got called on it. Cha Sep 2015 #47

You're right, I left out "completely ignore evidence" from that reply. (nt) jeff47 Sep 2015 #49

Yup. Agschmid Sep 2015 #73

Why are alerts allowed in protected groups? procon Sep 2015 #15

This has been brought to Skinner's attention a number of times. The problem is stevenleser Sep 2015 #16

Thanks, it does seem to expose a problem that has been allowed to fester. procon Sep 2015 #22

Who's a member of a group? jeff47 Sep 2015 #23

A subscriber. stevenleser Sep 2015 #24

Problem there is you get a very small jury pool jeff47 Sep 2015 #25

If I had to subscribe to be jury eligible I would. Renew Deal Sep 2015 #27

No, you can be subscribed to a group you're banned from. eomer Sep 2015 #30

Because the groups can be used as a launching pad for attacks Renew Deal Sep 2015 #26

I try my best not to say jack shit about any candidate on the DU..... nc4bo Sep 2015 #28

I was wondering what had happened to you. Haven't seen you in a while. Number23 Sep 2015 #31

This is really egregious. KitSileya Sep 2015 #29

Group Host - Received an SOP Alert on this thread JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #33

I've gotten it three times. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #35

Let people let off steam JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #36

I've never heard that meta wasn't allowed in groups gollygee Sep 2015 #40

They are desperate to shut us up and control the conversation. It's fascinating. stevenleser Sep 2015 #45

Especially considering how many claim to be first amendment activists. nt. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #48

I just served on a jury in HRC - JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #34

We know it, love. We are watching leftofcool Sep 2015 #37

I'm so upset JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #39

Jury system is as broken as the American political system randys1 Sep 2015 #38

One of my stalkers all but admitted it ronnykmarshall Sep 2015 #122

Glad you ventured back here JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #136

Add me. workinclasszero Sep 2015 #41

Done. It's fascinating, as the two lists grow, to see how much of a problem this is. stevenleser Sep 2015 #43

I'll state publicly JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #52

I don't think the TOS applies anymore in reality workinclasszero Sep 2015 #53

I have but 2 hides...ever to my name GitRDun Sep 2015 #51

JaneyVee is out, too. Hillary supporter. R B Garr Sep 2015 #54

How are jury ohheckyeah Sep 2015 #55

At random, from a pool that is 85% Sanders supporters. In other words... stevenleser Sep 2015 #56

List has been updated again. Thanks to all who send me public and Pm stevenleser Sep 2015 #57

They control the hosting system as well. Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #59

What strikes me, as the list gets larger is that it overwhelmingly... stevenleser Sep 2015 #58

Hope everyone sees this post ^^^^^^^^^ stevenleser Sep 2015 #72

Edited: Drunken Irishman got TWO bizarre hides recently... stevenleser Sep 2015 #60

Updated to include dates we can expect alert-stalked folks back so we can welcome them. nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #61

Three more unjustified hides on posts including a host of this group... stevenleser Sep 2015 #62

And do the powers to be care, at all. I wonder what is the actual number of people reading randys1 Sep 2015 #63

The powers are convinced there is nothing bad happening. They have reports stevenleser Sep 2015 #65

The number of alerts is meaningless, look at my account, 4 hides randys1 Sep 2015 #68

You're correct Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #69

I know a lot of my posts are alerted, just because I have annoyed the wrong folks not because stevenleser Sep 2015 #70

This just fell off my count Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #74

And which GROUPS are being targeted more than others Number23 Sep 2015 #171

And ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #187

Also uponit7771 and NanceGreggs PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #64

In that same thread? Must have been in response to someone I have on ignore. stevenleser Sep 2015 #66

Yup. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #67

The Nance one I can see but the other one I can't without using your link. It is a response to stevenleser Sep 2015 #71

That list is depressing. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #75

And it keeps growing, AND the hides and attempts to hide keep coming. Chitown Kev had post alerted stevenleser Sep 2015 #76

Well, my last voiced opinion on what I think of alerters like that got hidden. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #78

They didn't exile you HassleCat Sep 2015 #77

No, I haven't been silenced. Yet. But I have gotten a couple of hides with little justification. stevenleser Sep 2015 #80

My comment in a discussion of this in another group/forum stevenleser Sep 2015 #93

Edited to note that Janeyvee's suspension is over. I don't think she has come back though. stevenleser Sep 2015 #99

Stonecutter357 received a bogus hide a few days ago... stevenleser Sep 2015 #100

But there is no racism on this board, and surely not from a certain group (sigh) randys1 Sep 2015 #103

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service BumRushDaShow Sep 2015 #105

So Calling Out Racism Gets You a Potential Hide? In the AA Forum? lib87 Sep 2015 #106

IMHO, the jury system BumRushDaShow Sep 2015 #107

That Sounds Like a Good Idea to Me lib87 Sep 2015 #108

This is how institutionalized racism works gollygee Sep 2015 #159

Two in one day, amazing. randys1 Sep 2015 #109

SonderWoman is out now, too. Hillary supporter R B Garr Sep 2015 #104

I'll get to these updates later tonight, am currently out and about. Just unbelievable. stevenleser Sep 2015 #110

Skinner responds to my point about long term alert stalking and here are my followup comments stevenleser Sep 2015 #111

It is AMAZING that te conclusion is there is no problem randys1 Sep 2015 #113

In the admin's defense, the ratio issue may not have occurred to them. stevenleser Sep 2015 #114

Other than one hide having to do with Grayson, which totally took me by surprise randys1 Sep 2015 #115

As is the primary contest in general IMHO (about race & also gender & orientation to some extent). stevenleser Sep 2015 #116

Fabulous post. A great summation of the issues with the failed jury system on DU. kwassa Sep 2015 #123

how many are white straight males? stonecutter357 Oct 2015 #189

I said basically the same thing below gollygee Sep 2015 #156

The best bet JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #117

It depends on how you define alert stalking gollygee Sep 2015 #155

They can say that there is no alert-stalking and jury-rigging until the cows come home. Sheldon Cooper Sep 2015 #164

This message was self-deleted by its author Android3.14 Sep 2015 #152

I was put on two vacations and came back Sept 1 and Sept 8 upaloopa Sep 2015 #157

Getting a time out (5 alerts) is not proof of being "alert-stalked". Lil Missy Sep 2015 #158

Nonsense randys1 Sep 2015 #162

Blaming the victim upaloopa Sep 2015 #163

Yes indeed, Super Tuesday is going to be a very interesting day on DU. Lil Missy Sep 2015 #167

And if that were the totality of the argument we were making you would have a point. stevenleser Sep 2015 #165

Wrong Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #166

Why would anyone criticize Bernie???? nt valerief Sep 2015 #176

How many reasons do you want? nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #178

Because we can JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #182

No one is above criticism. n/t gollygee Sep 2015 #188

Cali_Dem got a bizarre hide. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #179

based on the stuff i'm seeing it's gotten even worse JI7 Sep 2015 #180

You said a mouthful. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #181

My sentence has ended. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #184

Welcome back! Will update the OP stevenleser Sep 2015 #185

Thanks. It was what it was and hope to move beyond it. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #186

And we have a really bogus hide for riversedge stevenleser Oct 2015 #190

I was on the jury, #3, and I've written ATA to ask about it. n/t pnwmom Oct 2015 #191

I just don't get it. Stellar Oct 2015 #193