African American

jeff47

(26,549 posts)

23. Who's a member of a group?

Thu Sep 10, 2015, 01:31 PM

Sep 2015

The "ban" design means everyone is "in" by default. So if someone's a smart enough bigot and doesn't post in a protected group, they won't get banned from the group, yet could vote to "hide" any posts that come from that group.

For example, I haven't been thrown out of here, yet I am not really a "member" of the group - I'm not in the community of people who regularly post. Heck, I'm only posting this as part of discussing "DU as a whole". How do you exclude me from juries on posts in this group? (Btw, I don't actually abuse the alert system.)

How do you do that while also giving timely juries for legitimately "hide-worthy" posts? While also giving timely access to a group (for example, requiring hosts to approve any new group members is not very timely)

As far as I can tell, you either need 24/7 moderator/host coverage, or you need a large pool of potential jurors. And we just don't have a good way to make the latter without having some trolls in the pool.

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Irony Alert: I got an alert & hide in the Hillary Clinton group for talking about the alert stalking [View all] stevenleser Sep 2015 OP

It is not safe to post to any safe haven group anymore. leftofcool Sep 2015 #1

According skinner though the jury system is working better than when cstanleytech Sep 2015 #94

I dont think they are measuring the right things, which is a common issue stevenleser Sep 2015 #95

I do agree it would be interesting to learn if the math agrees with your opinion but cstanleytech Sep 2015 #96

See the OP lists. Those people had timeouts. Most of them never did before. nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #97

Yes but you did answer what if the actual alert statistics and logs do not agree cstanleytech Sep 2015 #98

See my #111 below for more. Do you think 80 Bernie supporters have received timeouts? stevenleser Sep 2015 #112

To be honest I dont track them, I dont think I have even made any posts there cstanleytech Sep 2015 #124

Please. That so doesn't wash. Nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #125

What part? That atleast some of the hides were not justified? cstanleytech Sep 2015 #130

You can always search the names in the OP, ZombieHorde Sep 2015 #135

What was "uncivil" about this ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #126

I said most of them I did not say "all" of them. cstanleytech Sep 2015 #128

Oh ... Okay. 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #129

Nah, you dont have docile just dont be uncivil. cstanleytech Sep 2015 #131

I have yet to see where any of my posts were "uncivil" ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #132

Well that one post I linked back to you that you linked to me cstanleytech Sep 2015 #133

Let me tell you WHY what you (and Skinner) are saying is so ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #137

No, its the method the site has to encourage its members to try and keep it civil. cstanleytech Sep 2015 #141

You're absolutely right and all the regulars here know it. Please don't bother further with that Number23 Sep 2015 #169

Hey!!!!! Number23 Sep 2015 #134

Yeah ... I got out last night; but, I'm still on paper ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #138

LOL, glad to see you back, and I have happily updated the OP. stevenleser Sep 2015 #139

Oh - you! JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #150

I hear you ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #151

Yeah - there's no point in having the discussion anymore JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #153

Actually tell your PO to give me a call. Maybe between the two of us we can break your DU habit Number23 Sep 2015 #168

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #174

And of course we have this post where Bobbie Jo got a hide for posting stevenleser Sep 2015 #140

No one said the jury system is perfect however skinner has pointed that the old system with cstanleytech Sep 2015 #142

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #143

We can't have POC get uppity and women forget their place here! stevenleser Sep 2015 #146

Thanks, steven Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #144

After the letter that Bravenak received and the deluge of OPs in GDP about her participation Number23 Sep 2015 #170

I tried to join that site but I am a Bernie supporter so I cant get them to respond to me randys1 Sep 2015 #172

SO glad to see you, 1sbm! Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #145

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #147

Perfect analogy Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #148

Back in the day, I worked for a Inmate Pre-release Program ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #149

I feel like JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #154

I feel you... I do. randys1 Sep 2015 #160

This message was self-deleted by its author jfern Oct 2015 #192

Very true. riversedge Sep 2015 #102

I got another warning ronnykmarshall Sep 2015 #118

What the hell for? randys1 Sep 2015 #119

Wait, warning? As in alert or hidden post or something else? stevenleser Sep 2015 #120

Bernie supporter calling out Hillary supporters in another forum ronnykmarshall Sep 2015 #121

I can't say anymore than K&R stonecutter357 Sep 2015 #2

I updated the list of folks silenced for Sanders criticism in the OP. If anyone can stevenleser Sep 2015 #3

I was banned from the Bernie group TeacherB87 Sep 2015 #127

I was banned there as well for insisting on not using the term Democrat Politician but randys1 Sep 2015 #173

I'd like to think those sometimes abrasive elements TeacherB87 Sep 2015 #175

It would not be a wonderful thing. You are imagining a scenario where he could govern. He couldn't. stevenleser Sep 2015 #177

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. TeacherB87 Sep 2015 #183

This is crazy. herding cats Sep 2015 #4

I think we are going to see a lot of 5-2 and 6-1 hides and here is why stevenleser Sep 2015 #5

It's all part of the same problem DU has had with women, black person, etc boston bean Sep 2015 #6

The word 'manificent' has always been a lovely, beautiful way to riversedge Sep 2015 #101

You may be onto something here. herding cats Sep 2015 #8

No, although having a star increases the likelihood you'll be called> KittyWampus Sep 2015 #20

That's right herding cats Sep 2015 #21

Yep, it is that simple. And the one thing SOME bernie fans are real testy about is this whole randys1 Sep 2015 #161

Add me to the list- been swarmed by the same folks and bettyellen Sep 2015 #7

They've got me twice and I'm sure attempted many more times. nt boston bean Sep 2015 #9

I've created another section of the OP for folks who were on a timeout for being critical of Bernie stevenleser Sep 2015 #10

I hope the lists in the OP, and they are growing, shock some folks stevenleser Sep 2015 #11

Kick & highly recommended! William769 Sep 2015 #12

I'm afraid it's not all in one direction. jeff47 Sep 2015 #13

It's all in one direction. Sanders supporters are 85% of DUers. They control juries. stevenleser Sep 2015 #14

Now. jeff47 Sep 2015 #18

No, it's not all in one direction. Jim Lane Sep 2015 #32

Extremely unlikely that four Clinton supporting jurors are seated in any juries here stevenleser Sep 2015 #42

A bit over one percent, I think Jim Lane Sep 2015 #50

Excellent explanation. n/t PoliticAverse Sep 2015 #83

No it isn't. stevenleser Sep 2015 #85

Before I saw that post I actually did a computer simulation of the issue and came up with PoliticAverse Sep 2015 #87

I wi find the actual formula by asking some math PhD friends I have. Nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #89

The basic problem can be phrased as follows: PoliticAverse Sep 2015 #90

Actually with the 85%/15% mix it would be extremely likely that such juries would happen. PoliticAverse Sep 2015 #79

No, it wouldn't. The odds are somewhere around 5000-1. stevenleser Sep 2015 #81

Assuming an 85% Sanders, 15% Clinton mix, a primary season of 365 days and 1 jury per day, PoliticAverse Sep 2015 #82

What math are you using to come up with that? Let's see it. On edit... stevenleser Sep 2015 #84

Read the following post... PoliticAverse Sep 2015 #86

I wi find the actual formula by asking some math PhD friends I have. Nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #88

You don't need a Ph.D. to do basic arithmetic. Jim Lane Sep 2015 #91

It's even more likely than you say because there are many more juries. Jim Lane Sep 2015 #92

By the way, that one juror was the troll with two accounts, one a Bernie supporter and one a Hillary stevenleser Sep 2015 #17

Yes, it's just a particularly egregious, yet brief, example. jeff47 Sep 2015 #19

It was a troll... you shouldn't be giving "Trolls" as an example of what a Hill supporter wrote. Cha Sep 2015 #44

Would you prefer this one? jeff47 Sep 2015 #46

You gave an example of a troll saying something stupid.. you got called on it. Cha Sep 2015 #47

You're right, I left out "completely ignore evidence" from that reply. (nt) jeff47 Sep 2015 #49

Yup. Agschmid Sep 2015 #73

Why are alerts allowed in protected groups? procon Sep 2015 #15

This has been brought to Skinner's attention a number of times. The problem is stevenleser Sep 2015 #16

Thanks, it does seem to expose a problem that has been allowed to fester. procon Sep 2015 #22

Who's a member of a group? jeff47 Sep 2015 #23

A subscriber. stevenleser Sep 2015 #24

Problem there is you get a very small jury pool jeff47 Sep 2015 #25

If I had to subscribe to be jury eligible I would. Renew Deal Sep 2015 #27

No, you can be subscribed to a group you're banned from. eomer Sep 2015 #30

Because the groups can be used as a launching pad for attacks Renew Deal Sep 2015 #26

I try my best not to say jack shit about any candidate on the DU..... nc4bo Sep 2015 #28

I was wondering what had happened to you. Haven't seen you in a while. Number23 Sep 2015 #31

This is really egregious. KitSileya Sep 2015 #29

Group Host - Received an SOP Alert on this thread JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #33

I've gotten it three times. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #35

Let people let off steam JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #36

I've never heard that meta wasn't allowed in groups gollygee Sep 2015 #40

They are desperate to shut us up and control the conversation. It's fascinating. stevenleser Sep 2015 #45

Especially considering how many claim to be first amendment activists. nt. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #48

I just served on a jury in HRC - JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #34

We know it, love. We are watching leftofcool Sep 2015 #37

I'm so upset JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #39

Jury system is as broken as the American political system randys1 Sep 2015 #38

One of my stalkers all but admitted it ronnykmarshall Sep 2015 #122

Glad you ventured back here JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #136

Add me. workinclasszero Sep 2015 #41

Done. It's fascinating, as the two lists grow, to see how much of a problem this is. stevenleser Sep 2015 #43

I'll state publicly JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #52

I don't think the TOS applies anymore in reality workinclasszero Sep 2015 #53

I have but 2 hides...ever to my name GitRDun Sep 2015 #51

JaneyVee is out, too. Hillary supporter. R B Garr Sep 2015 #54

How are jury ohheckyeah Sep 2015 #55

At random, from a pool that is 85% Sanders supporters. In other words... stevenleser Sep 2015 #56

List has been updated again. Thanks to all who send me public and Pm stevenleser Sep 2015 #57

They control the hosting system as well. Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #59

What strikes me, as the list gets larger is that it overwhelmingly... stevenleser Sep 2015 #58

Hope everyone sees this post ^^^^^^^^^ stevenleser Sep 2015 #72

Edited: Drunken Irishman got TWO bizarre hides recently... stevenleser Sep 2015 #60

Updated to include dates we can expect alert-stalked folks back so we can welcome them. nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #61

Three more unjustified hides on posts including a host of this group... stevenleser Sep 2015 #62

And do the powers to be care, at all. I wonder what is the actual number of people reading randys1 Sep 2015 #63

The powers are convinced there is nothing bad happening. They have reports stevenleser Sep 2015 #65

The number of alerts is meaningless, look at my account, 4 hides randys1 Sep 2015 #68

You're correct Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #69

I know a lot of my posts are alerted, just because I have annoyed the wrong folks not because stevenleser Sep 2015 #70

This just fell off my count Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #74

And which GROUPS are being targeted more than others Number23 Sep 2015 #171

And ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2015 #187

Also uponit7771 and NanceGreggs PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #64

In that same thread? Must have been in response to someone I have on ignore. stevenleser Sep 2015 #66

Yup. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #67

The Nance one I can see but the other one I can't without using your link. It is a response to stevenleser Sep 2015 #71

That list is depressing. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #75

And it keeps growing, AND the hides and attempts to hide keep coming. Chitown Kev had post alerted stevenleser Sep 2015 #76

Well, my last voiced opinion on what I think of alerters like that got hidden. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #78

They didn't exile you HassleCat Sep 2015 #77

No, I haven't been silenced. Yet. But I have gotten a couple of hides with little justification. stevenleser Sep 2015 #80

My comment in a discussion of this in another group/forum stevenleser Sep 2015 #93

Edited to note that Janeyvee's suspension is over. I don't think she has come back though. stevenleser Sep 2015 #99

Stonecutter357 received a bogus hide a few days ago... stevenleser Sep 2015 #100

But there is no racism on this board, and surely not from a certain group (sigh) randys1 Sep 2015 #103

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service BumRushDaShow Sep 2015 #105

So Calling Out Racism Gets You a Potential Hide? In the AA Forum? lib87 Sep 2015 #106

IMHO, the jury system BumRushDaShow Sep 2015 #107

That Sounds Like a Good Idea to Me lib87 Sep 2015 #108

This is how institutionalized racism works gollygee Sep 2015 #159

Two in one day, amazing. randys1 Sep 2015 #109

SonderWoman is out now, too. Hillary supporter R B Garr Sep 2015 #104

I'll get to these updates later tonight, am currently out and about. Just unbelievable. stevenleser Sep 2015 #110

Skinner responds to my point about long term alert stalking and here are my followup comments stevenleser Sep 2015 #111

It is AMAZING that te conclusion is there is no problem randys1 Sep 2015 #113

In the admin's defense, the ratio issue may not have occurred to them. stevenleser Sep 2015 #114

Other than one hide having to do with Grayson, which totally took me by surprise randys1 Sep 2015 #115

As is the primary contest in general IMHO (about race & also gender & orientation to some extent). stevenleser Sep 2015 #116

Fabulous post. A great summation of the issues with the failed jury system on DU. kwassa Sep 2015 #123

how many are white straight males? stonecutter357 Oct 2015 #189

I said basically the same thing below gollygee Sep 2015 #156

The best bet JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #117

It depends on how you define alert stalking gollygee Sep 2015 #155

They can say that there is no alert-stalking and jury-rigging until the cows come home. Sheldon Cooper Sep 2015 #164

This message was self-deleted by its author Android3.14 Sep 2015 #152

I was put on two vacations and came back Sept 1 and Sept 8 upaloopa Sep 2015 #157

Getting a time out (5 alerts) is not proof of being "alert-stalked". Lil Missy Sep 2015 #158

Nonsense randys1 Sep 2015 #162

Blaming the victim upaloopa Sep 2015 #163

Yes indeed, Super Tuesday is going to be a very interesting day on DU. Lil Missy Sep 2015 #167

And if that were the totality of the argument we were making you would have a point. stevenleser Sep 2015 #165

Wrong Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #166

Why would anyone criticize Bernie???? nt valerief Sep 2015 #176

How many reasons do you want? nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #178

Because we can JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #182

No one is above criticism. n/t gollygee Sep 2015 #188

Cali_Dem got a bizarre hide. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #179

based on the stuff i'm seeing it's gotten even worse JI7 Sep 2015 #180

You said a mouthful. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #181

My sentence has ended. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #184

Welcome back! Will update the OP stevenleser Sep 2015 #185

Thanks. It was what it was and hope to move beyond it. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #186

And we have a really bogus hide for riversedge stevenleser Oct 2015 #190

I was on the jury, #3, and I've written ATA to ask about it. n/t pnwmom Oct 2015 #191

I just don't get it. Stellar Oct 2015 #193