African American

cloudythescribbler

(2,599 posts)

172. I am from MA, and as of 2004, Kennedy was the more progressive senator

Mon Apr 18, 2016, 03:04 PM

Apr 2016

btw I am not arguing that Kerry hasn't had a 'positive effect' on the nation's 'historic record' as Secretary of State. He deserves great respect for negotiating the very difficult Iran deal, whatever demagogic detractors may say about it. But Kerry, who eg like Biden and Hillary and Lieberman and Edwards all voted for the Iraq War (which at least many Democrats in the Senate had the wisdom to oppose) is indeed from the national neoliberal wing of the Party. He is not like Capuano, Serrano, Grijalva, Sanders Barbara Lee, and Kucinich and many others in Congress tho, as on the Iran Deal, they (Kerry and the relatively progressive wing of the Party) may be on the 'same side'.

Is the division b/t neoliberals like Hillary & Bill Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Lieberman, Edwards and (as it turns out, to the dismay of many of his supporters from day 1 in the 2007-8 cycle, like myself), Obama, even tho Obama accomplished more in a PROGRESSIVE direction as president than Bill Clinton did) and progressives, but the division is there. And on issues like the coup in Honduras and the TPP it does make a difference

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Why did Sanders wait until we have a black president to cast blame and start his "revolution"? [View all] Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 OP

you have a definite point. eom artyteacher Apr 2016 #1

Actually he dosnt have a point. He is just stating his fantasies and imaginations as facts. eom. Jemmons Apr 2016 #13

I'm very much a "girl". And what facts have I gotten wrong? Please do tell in your infinite wisdom. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #21

You are stating things as fact that are not facts Jemmons Apr 2016 #23

It's called drawing a conclusion from the facts that ARE in evidence. Now ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2016 #46

I suspect that you know this. But in case you dont: If you had paid attention you would not have Jemmons Apr 2016 #50

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2016 #52

Because it would be pure disingeneous trolling Jemmons Apr 2016 #54

... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2016 #55

Look: You have been member here a long long time. I dont understand your choice Jemmons Apr 2016 #58

My "choice" of HRC is, in this two party system, a forced choice ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2016 #61

Do you then honestly think that anyone would care to call Sanders a racist if he wasnt running for Jemmons Apr 2016 #64

Probably not ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2016 #66

You wrote: Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #74

It is not clear to me what insult you talk about. Jemmons Apr 2016 #100

You are posting in the African American Group. I started this OP in the AA Group. We here have had Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #101

Fair enough. My misunderstanding. eom. Jemmons Apr 2016 #105

Liberal_Stalwart has made it crystal DAMNED clear in her OP what her concerns are Number23 Apr 2016 #121

I wouldn't call him a racist JustAnotherGen Apr 2016 #178

No, I was asking a question, which I think is a valid question. Why did Sanders wait until NOW Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #70

Two Issues: First, timing -- why is Bernie Sanders Running Now? and Second, Bernie Sanders on race cloudythescribbler Apr 2016 #114

John Kerry is a progressive through and through. You don't know your history. blm Apr 2016 #152

I am from MA, and as of 2004, Kennedy was the more progressive senator cloudythescribbler Apr 2016 #172

Kerry's positive effect was established PRE Sec of State. blm Apr 2016 #173

He could have been marching on Washington then mcar Apr 2016 #2

16 years ago? JonathanRackham Apr 2016 #3

LOL ... Yeah, that's it! 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2016 #47

Oh yeah, most of his constituents are white. All the more reason why he doesn't deserve the votes Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #71

The way the Clintons earned all those black votes? Human101948 Apr 2016 #77

This OP is about Bernie Sanders. Stick to the topic. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #82

Yeah right! Human101948 Apr 2016 #84

Liberal_Stalwart has been and even in this OP is as critical of Hillary as she is of Sanders Number23 Apr 2016 #122

Like Obama? Sanders says he left voters behind ... uponit7771 Apr 2016 #144

He didn't wait. boobooday Apr 2016 #4

How true + 1000 awake Apr 2016 #30

He's been awfully timid with his revolution from 1968 until Obama became President beastie boy Apr 2016 #44

Thank you! My criticism of BS is similar to that of Nader. He didn't build a party, even as an Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #69

Thank you. They are feigning ignorance. They know damn well what I'm talking about. ;) Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #154

They have to. beastie boy Apr 2016 #159

The point again: He should have been building relationships with black voters for all those years. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #72

He was representing Vermont all those years. boobooday Apr 2016 #83

Fuck that! Being a senator from Vermont does not mean that he could not have begun building Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #157

Sanders loves to point to Medicare/caid and Social Security as two very successful socialist stopbush Apr 2016 #113

I guess it's the same reason he sends out his Naderite surrogates like Paul Song, Susan Tanuki Apr 2016 #5

Hi L_S71! BlueMTexpat Apr 2016 #6

Yeah, I know. I'm going to vote today. When I stated that April 26th can't come fast enough... Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #8

I'm definitely with you BlueMTexpat Apr 2016 #9

Always good to see you, my friend. Hang in there! Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #11

I'm hyper aware of racism... OneGrassRoot Apr 2016 #7

Much appreciated. Thank you so much for being honest and fair. You stated some points that attracted Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #10

Bernie didn't start his revolution in 2008. He's been at it a long time. All in it together Apr 2016 #24

Again, if he did have a revolution, that didn't involve black voters. WHY? Black voters, by and Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #73

Ding...ding..ding! That whole West and Smiley endorsement raised red flags for me! Sour grapes!n/t KelleyD Apr 2016 #110

... OneGrassRoot Apr 2016 #25

Be careful the last person to say they never saw him got attacked horrendously. Amimnoch Apr 2016 #27

...and he still is. I'm not afraid of the Sanders fanatics. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #75

I want to add something FlaGranny Apr 2016 #26

I agree... OneGrassRoot Apr 2016 #38

I think he has been fighting the good fight for decades... why he waited til now to bring it to the secondwind Apr 2016 #12

I've followed Sanders' career for decades myself, always in awe of him and jealous that other Dems Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #17

Bernie is a Senator from Vermont zalinda Apr 2016 #53

Because until the great recession and OWS... tk2kewl Apr 2016 #14

He was less known NOW! What's the difference? If one is a change agent, one is a change agent Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #18

he has done *exactly* that tk2kewl Apr 2016 #20

He has NOT done that. Not at all. If he did, more black people would know him. And I have been Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #22

unless you're from VT I doubt it tk2kewl Apr 2016 #35

It's your opinion. I won't go into this, but I worked on Capitol Hill for several decades. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #76

I guess that explains it tk2kewl Apr 2016 #116

A "Washington Insider" or the vast majority of black and Hispanic voters in every single primary Number23 Apr 2016 #123

LOL!! If I'm a Washington Insider, then Bernie is, too! He's been in this town a lot longer than I. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #155

Since you've followed Bernie's career so closely since he first arrived in Washington tk2kewl Apr 2016 #162

Your reading skills are quite subpar. Again, if Sanders cared so much about black folk, he Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #163

So when you are challenged for evidence you resort to insulting me. Nice. tk2kewl Apr 2016 #164

What evidence? He fucking marched and was arrested. So fucking what?? Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #165

you claim his run is veiled racism with no evidence tk2kewl Apr 2016 #166

So now Bernie Sanders.. disillusioned73 Apr 2016 #15

According to you. He think he and his surrogates have issued subtle bigoted statements. Yes. Is he a Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #19

Your OP implies a lot more than "I'm not sure".. disillusioned73 Apr 2016 #28

One can use dog whistle tactics that are racially insensitive in nature and not necessarily be a Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #78

Are you talking about Hillary? All in it together Apr 2016 #34

This OP is about Bernie Sanders. Please stick to the topic. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #79

Your entire premise is that he's a racist for even running this year. Scootaloo Apr 2016 #59

I think he's made subtle and explicit racist statements about black voters in the American South. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #81

There's no uncertainty in your OP. Scootaloo Apr 2016 #111

Post removed Post removed Apr 2016 #189

Hunt you down? Really? Scootaloo Apr 2016 #193

Exactly! ColesCountyDem Apr 2016 #49

here's a good watch tomm2thumbs Apr 2016 #16

I'm calling bullshit! DAngelo136 Apr 2016 #29

Paul Wellstone and Denis Kucinich were indeed revolutionaries. Sanders just yelled and screamed Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #85

I'm so sorry the BSrs Hid you out of your own thread in the AA Group, LS! Now I know Cha Apr 2016 #196

This is so extremely ridiculous. Herman4747 Apr 2016 #31

when one candidate... tk2kewl Apr 2016 #45

This OP is about Bernie Sanders. If you can't answer the question, that's o.k. Sanders can't either. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #86

That's a shame. classykaren Apr 2016 #32

Excellent post pandr32 Apr 2016 #33

Aloha, pandr.. I just made a post that I know now she can't respond to b/c BSrs Hid her out of her Cha Apr 2016 #197

Thanks for the update Cha pandr32 Apr 2016 #198

K&R! betsuni Apr 2016 #36

till the Black president brought this country to a stable situation, no one would risk a revolution La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2016 #37

I was just thinking something similar in reading the replies above... OneGrassRoot Apr 2016 #67

yup DemonGoddess Apr 2016 #216

Come on, we both know why. And just FYI "the revolution".....it's bullshit. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2016 #39

Thank you! Finally someone tells the truth! :) Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #87

K&R. Paladin Apr 2016 #40

When Obama formed his first cabinet is when the revolution began. maggies farm Apr 2016 #41

...and yet, you didn't answer the OP's question. Didn't even attempt. Just resorts to bashing the Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #88

I will not put words in another mouth maggies farm Apr 2016 #103

If you shit on black voters and the black president, you will lose. Sanders is learning this lesson. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #158

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2016 #202

Citizens United was the last straw demwing Apr 2016 #42

What does citizens united have to do with the black president? And you proved my point... Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #89

He is very pragmatic and knows the right moment has arrived now. nt thereismore Apr 2016 #43

accusations of racism again...fabulous navarth Apr 2016 #48

There is so much wrong with your post, I don't know where to start. Then I saw how many hides FailureToCommunicate Apr 2016 #51

I don't give a damn about HIDES! Don't be silly or childish. I speak my mind. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #90

Your response just confirms what I wrote. Were you too busy to read it? That's fine, I can FailureToCommunicate Apr 2016 #120

Typical. This post is about Sanders. Not Hillary. If you can't direct your comments to the OP, then Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #140

What utter bullshit noiretextatique Apr 2016 #56

I would say this group doesnt have to look far at all to find racist intent, not with Jackie Wilson Said Apr 2016 #62

Well said, JWS. n/t OneGrassRoot Apr 2016 #68

"but the reason she does has much more to do with those surrounding and supporting Berne" Number23 Apr 2016 #124

Yes, incredibly absurd! Sad that someone would post it. n/t Herman4747 Apr 2016 #108

Since we disgust and bother you so much, PLEASE don't feel like you have to come here and respond Number23 Apr 2016 #125

He has been saying these things all his life. oldandhappy Apr 2016 #57

Reading comprehension is KEY! Go back and read carefully this time. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #92

I dont agree or believe Bernie is responding now because Obama is black, but I do Actor Apr 2016 #112

I agree with that. oldandhappy Apr 2016 #118

The president accomplished so much more than most people realize, and he did so in Actor Apr 2016 #119

I've been pondering the phenomena of Sanders a lot lately ismnotwasm Apr 2016 #60

I completely agree with this statement Jackie Wilson Said Apr 2016 #65

Brilliant, brilliant analysis!!! I love this! Truthful, honest and reasonable. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #91

Thank you! ismnotwasm Apr 2016 #106

+1, IThe gender and racial establishment in the DNC is having a temper.... uponit7771 Apr 2016 #145

I find your opinion and comments to be direct reflections of Jackie Wilson Said Apr 2016 #63

What an utter load of crap davenelson5555 Apr 2016 #80

You only have 22 posts, sweetheart. You know nothing about me. But, carry on... Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #93

"The man marched with Martin Luther King" Number23 Apr 2016 #127

Your point being? davenelson5555 Apr 2016 #148

That old "he marched with MLK" crap has been tossed around so much as some sort of substitute for Number23 Apr 2016 #149

I'm sorry the 60's civil rights movement doesn't carry much water for you davenelson5555 Apr 2016 #150

The idea that someone doing the "he marched with MLK while Hillary was a Goldwater girl" spiel Number23 Apr 2016 #167

I'm glad you find me precious and adorable davenelson5555 Apr 2016 #169

Sanders marching was admirable but I don't understand why you are acting like what he Number23 Apr 2016 #170

He did more than simply join the March on Washington, but you know that. davenelson5555 Apr 2016 #171

"chained, beaten and arrested" too bad that only one of those things is actually true Number23 Apr 2016 #175

"Chained, beaten and arrested" - all of those things are true davenelson5555 Apr 2016 #179

No one has said his reactions aren't worth a damn. But his actions don't make him some great Number23 Apr 2016 #180

I'll agree to one single point davenelson5555 Apr 2016 #181

I think you're asking the wrong question.... mike_c Apr 2016 #94

HA! Touche! Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #96

This is the last election he would realistically run in JI7 Apr 2016 #95

He should have run against the president in 2012. He was calling for him to be primaried. Why not Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #97

Sanders has no respect for President Obama and wants to throw away Obama's legacy Gothmog Apr 2016 #98

YEP! Some of his supporters are feigning outrage and ignorance. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #99

Simple - he sees his time is much more limited to make a bigger impact elfin Apr 2016 #102

Hmmmm....interesting. What an opportune time, then. Welp, good luck to him, then. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #104

I'm Really Tired of noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #107

I'm not worried about BS, His campaign will be a .... dubyadiprecession Apr 2016 #109

I don't think Bernie is racist. I do think some of his campaign people and many of his . . . brush Apr 2016 #115

Why did Occupy Wall Street wait until we had a black prez to organize against greed and corruption? Dems to Win Apr 2016 #117

FINALLY, an intelligent thoughtful answer from someone who disagrees Number23 Apr 2016 #128

Definitely. We need a BETTER New Deal, that includes everyone this time. Dems to Win Apr 2016 #136

what??? SoLeftIAmRight Apr 2016 #126

Post removed Post removed Apr 2016 #129

Maybe you should ask him instead of speculate Perogie Apr 2016 #130

He already answered. Told me that my family's vote in the American South mean nothing. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #183

The "Southern votes don't count but YEAARRRGGH Wyoming!!11" posts would give any thinking person Number23 Apr 2016 #131

Are some racist? Sure. Just like some Hillary voters are. UMTerp01 Apr 2016 #137

Yes !! If Sanders had any real track record of leading people wouldn't have to get to know him uponit7771 Apr 2016 #147

Sanders DID NOT start any revolutions. chknltl Apr 2016 #132

An intelligent response! Thank you! I used to listen to "Brunch with Bernie" for years. I purchased Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #139

Post #129 Jury Results Blue_Adept Apr 2016 #133

Sorry Bernie Bros. you couldn't censor this one. RandySF Apr 2016 #134

+1000. There's only one thing we disagree on : ecstatic Apr 2016 #135

My honest answer Chitown Kev Apr 2016 #138

i disagree about edwards JI7 Apr 2016 #141

I did slightly misstate that Chitown Kev Apr 2016 #142

DING DING DING !! I posted something similar to this before reading this thread. GREAT MINDS!!! uponit7771 Apr 2016 #143

As always, love! ;) Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #153

I thought he probably thought it was a good time because of Occupy Wall Street gollygee Apr 2016 #146

They are not just gangs of kids anymore. RepubliCON-Watch Apr 2016 #151

What utter bullshit! The idea that Bernie announced at this time because Obama is AA. Akamai Apr 2016 #156

Ask Sanders to build his coalition of blacks, Hispanics, women and people of all walks of life... Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #160

I wondered that myself. But another way of looking at it is why did he wait pnwmom Apr 2016 #161

"The cradle of the Civil Rights Movement is in the American South." PREACH IT!! TELL THESE PEOPLE Number23 Apr 2016 #168

He made a ton of mistakes. Too many of his most ardent followers or supporters look and sound Actor Apr 2016 #182

You wrote: And, I think most anger at him, like in this thread, is actually at his supporters. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #184

I completely understand. Maybe i discounted the alienation done by Bernie himself, whether Actor Apr 2016 #185

And June can't come soon enough for me Kind of Blue Apr 2016 #174

Please do, my friend. I'd be honored. Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #190

Oh thanks, brilliant LS71! Kind of Blue Apr 2016 #192

Interesting, huh, the president who was successful in getting healthcare through congress, go figure Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #176

While BS's "medicare for all" was blocked in subcommittee! Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #177

This message was self-deleted by its author aikoaiko Apr 2016 #186

Less to do with Obama being black and shifting to the right significantly after "Hope & Change" aikoaiko Apr 2016 #187

He's not a racist JustAnotherGen Apr 2016 #188

That he blames Obama for not deliverings "effective" Hope and Change the way YOU and Sanders wanted Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2016 #191

You are not reading what I wrote. aikoaiko Apr 2016 #194

She's not hate filled except for when JustAnotherGen Apr 2016 #199

I wasn't really commenting on her position on the Clintons aikoaiko Apr 2016 #200

You should - search her User Name JustAnotherGen Apr 2016 #201

when I have time I will, but even if she hates Clintons with the heat of a 1000 suns aikoaiko Apr 2016 #204

I don't want to speak directly for her JustAnotherGen Apr 2016 #205

Fair enough -- thank you. aikoaiko Apr 2016 #206

Excellent Question, LS.. and one the members of The Obama Diary have been asking, too. Cha Apr 2016 #195

Listen, we all thought Obama would govern like a Progressive, those who believed in him anyway, highprincipleswork Apr 2016 #203

Nobody hates you for loving Bernie JustAnotherGen Apr 2016 #207

First of all, thank you for your kind words. I feel a little silly, because I did not fully realize highprincipleswork Apr 2016 #209

These are all things I understand JustAnotherGen Apr 2016 #210

Oh boo hoo.. President Obama is Progressive. Progressive means getting things done and that's Cha Apr 2016 #208

These people kill me when they don't see Obama walking on water... Digital Puppy Apr 2016 #211

I know, DP.. they all have the same mantra.. "disappointed".. BS actually used that word when Cha Apr 2016 #214

His actual success, especially in light of the outrageous obstruction, is monumental. Jackie Wilson Said Apr 2016 #212

HOPE fleabiscuit Apr 2016 #213

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2016 #215