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Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
49. How about this fundamental?
Fri Nov 22, 2013, 10:41 PM
Nov 2013


In brief, dear princes and lords, those of you who have Jews under your rule-- if my counsel does not please your, find better advice, so that you and we all can be rid of the unbearable, devilish burden of the Jews, lest we become guilty sharers before God in the lies, blasphemy, the defamation, and the curses which the mad Jews indulge in so freely and wantonly against the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, this dear mother, all Christians, all authority, and ourselves. Do not grant them protection, safe-conduct, or communion with us. . . . With this faithful counsel and warning I wish to cleanse and exonerate my conscience.

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



Let the government deal with them in this respect, as I have suggested. But whether the government acts or not, let everyone at least be guided by his own conscience and form for himself a definition or image of a Jew.

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



However, we must avoid confirming them in their wanton lying, slandering, cursing, and defaming. Nor dare we make ourselves partners in their devilish ranting and raving by shielding and protecting them, by giving them food, drink, and shelter, or by other neighborly acts...

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



Therefore we Christians, in turn, are obliged not to tolerate their wanton and conscious blasphemy.

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier, is:

First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire...

Second, that all their books-- their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible-- be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted...

Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country...

Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it...

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



He who hears this name [God] from a Jew must inform the authorities, or else throw sow dung at him when he sees him and chase him away.

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



But what will happen even if we do burn down the Jews' synagogues and forbid them publicly to praise God, to pray, to teach, to utter God's name? They will still keep doing it in secret. If we know that they are doing this in secret, it is the same as if they were doing it publicly. For our knowledge of their secret doings and our toleration of them implies that they are not secret after all and thus our conscience is encumbered with it before God.

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



If we wish to wash our hands of the Jews' blasphemy and not share in their guilt, we have to part company with them. They must be driven from our country.

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



...they remain our daily murderers and bloodthirsty foes in their hearts. Their prayers and curses furnish evidence of that, as do the many stories which relate their torturing of children and all sorts of crimes for which they have often been burned at the stake or banished.

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



...that everyone would gladly be rid of them.

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



Undoubtedly they do more and viler things than those which we know and discover.

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



If I had power over the Jews, as our princes and cities have, I would deal severely with their lying mouth.

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



They [rulers] must act like a good physician who, when gangrene has set in proceeds without mercy to cut, saw, and burn flesh, veins, bone, and marrow. Such a procedure must also be followed in this instance. Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them, as Moses did...

If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs.

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)



My essay, I hope, will furnish a Christian (who in any case has no desire to become a Jew) with enough material not only to defend himself against the blind, venomous Jews, but also to become the foe of the Jews' malice, lying, and cursing, and to understand not only that their belief is false but that they are surely possessed by all devils. May Christ, our dear Lord, convert them mercifully and preserve us steadfastly and immovably in the knowledge of him, which is eternal life. Amen.

-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)
-------------------------------------------------------------


No apologist can claim that Martin Luther bore his anti-Jewishness out of youthful naivete', uneducation, or out of unfounded Christianity. On the contrary, Luther in his youth expressed a great optimism about Jewish conversion to Christianity. But in his later years, Luther began to realize that the Jews would not convert to his wishes. His anti-Jewishness grew slowly over time. His logic came not from science or reason, but rather from Scripture and his Faith. His "On the Jews and Their Lies" shows remarkable study into the Bible and fanatical biblical reasoning. Luther, at age 60 wrote this dangerous "little" book at the prime of his maturity, and in full knowledge in support of his beliefs and Christianity.

Few people today realize that Luther wrote 'On the Jews and Their Lies.' (He also wrote such works like "Against the Sabbatarians.&quot Freethinkers should become aware of the anti-Semitic influence that Luther has brought on the world. His vehement attack on Jews and his powerful influence on the German faithful has brought a new hypothesis to mind: that the Jewish holocaust, and indeed, the eliminationist form of anti-Semitism in Nazi Germany may not have occurred without the influence from Luther's book "On the Jews and Their Lies."

Walter Buch, the head of the Nazi Party court, admitted Luther's influence on Nazi Germany:


When Luther turned his attention to the Jews, after he completed his translation of the Bible, he left behind "on the Jews and their Lies" for posterity. -cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]

Many people confess their amazement that Hitler preaches ideas which they have always held.... From the Middle Ages we can look to the same example in Martin Luther. What stirred in the soul and spirit of the German people of that time, finally found expression in his person, in his words and deeds.
-"Geist und Kampf" (speech), Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]


Hans Hinkel, a Nazi who worked in Goebbels' Reich Chamber of Culture said:


Through his acts and his spiritual attitude he began the fight which we still wage today; with Luther the revolution of German blood and feeling against alien elements of the Volk was begun. -cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I don't know about the world, but General Discussion was better without all the religious material. Bluenorthwest Nov 2013 #1
Agree. I think the hosts remain divided on the issue. cbayer Nov 2013 #2
I disagree with the assertion that religion is not implicitly oppressive.... mike_c Nov 2013 #3
That's not true. The religion I grew up in encourages inquiry. cbayer Nov 2013 #6
No, it doesn't skepticscott Nov 2013 #19
What cbayer believes or doesn't believe... trotsky Nov 2013 #22
+ Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #60
I grew up in a jewish culture edhopper Nov 2013 #21
"All religions"? okasha Nov 2013 #23
evidently so-- perhaps you could inform me.... mike_c Nov 2013 #24
But that's not what you said. cbayer Nov 2013 #27
of course it is.... mike_c Nov 2013 #29
And several people have told you that they have attended churches that encourage inquiry. cbayer Nov 2013 #35
OK, I think we're mixing apples and oranges here.... mike_c Nov 2013 #37
Exactly what kind of evidence do you want? hrmjustin Nov 2013 #38
first and foremost... mike_c Nov 2013 #39
Who is being persecuted? hrmjustin Nov 2013 #41
Christians have persecuted millions, and continue to do so today.... mike_c Nov 2013 #42
I know my religion's history. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #45
Should an atheist child be allowed to go to a Catholic school and question .... PassingFair Nov 2013 #67
My kids did. cbayer Nov 2013 #68
Were they allowed to question catholic doctrine or make flat statements of their own dis-belief? PassingFair Nov 2013 #70
They had religion classes where they were able to question doctrine cbayer Nov 2013 #72
I am not in favor of expelling kids based on their beliefs. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #69
Non-theistic Buddhism. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #46
I suspected that might be the case... mike_c Nov 2013 #53
You keep moving the goalposts. cbayer Nov 2013 #44
I am sorry but my church does not discourage inquiry. I am not oppressed either. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #25
what's your religion? mike_c Nov 2013 #26
Episcopalian/Anglican hrmjustin Nov 2013 #28
in my experience Christianity certainly does NOT encourage inquiry regarding dogma.... mike_c Nov 2013 #32
Meet new Christians. sounds to me you are just making a general statement that is based on some bad hrmjustin Nov 2013 #34
What if you said you don't believe in the Trinity? Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #47
no I woul not be shown the door. They know I ddon't think much of the hell idea. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #48
So do you recite a creed you don't believe in? Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #50
Did I say I did not believe in the creeds? hrmjustin Nov 2013 #51
Some people state you can believe lots of different things and be christian.At least at DU. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #55
We don't use the term hell but we say descended to the dead. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #56
Two words for you: Marcus Borg Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2013 #65
I know about Spong. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #71
I guess you haven't read their recent writings then Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2013 #74
What if you informed yourself a bit better before posting? okasha Nov 2013 #73
Which issues? Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #75
Mike_c, they're evading answering you too. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #84
Let me ask you how this sits with you, MOL. cbayer Nov 2013 #85
I don't know how it sits with MoL but it's hilarious to me. trotsky Nov 2013 #86
Hey Trotsky, Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #87
People can do good things without religion. cbayer Nov 2013 #88
As ususal, you intentionally miss the point. cleanhippie Nov 2013 #89
Some people simply have to turn off skepticscott Nov 2013 #90
So Buddhism is irrational mythology?? Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #91
I didn't say that it was (and I do know quite a bit about it). cbayer Nov 2013 #92
WHOOOOSH! cleanhippie Nov 2013 #93
You don't understand English. Tu no comprende ingles. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #94
I understand English perfectly well, thanks. cbayer Nov 2013 #95
That you're being accused of making "personal attacks" skepticscott Nov 2013 #96
She doesn't know the meaning of "mythology". Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #97
Talking about someone instead of to them is also a sure sign that you have lost the debate. cbayer Nov 2013 #104
Ignoring factual points and your own inconsistencies is the surest sign you've lost the debate. cleanhippie Nov 2013 #105
I already addressed my comments to you. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #108
I've told you this repeatedly, and I understand that it doesn't fit your narrative, cbayer Dec 2013 #111
It's not about people. It's about dogma. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #100
Everyone has their own dogma. cbayer Nov 2013 #102
Thinking that having an imaginary friend is stupid is not a dogma. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #106
Not entirely true. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #99
I can officiate a same-sex marriage. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #98
But there are many religious and fully ordained people who can officiate cbayer Nov 2013 #103
Weak sauce. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #107
Rev. Frank Schaeffer got suspended. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #109
UU is certainly one of the groups I have no issues with. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #110
IMO the primary purpose of religion is to grant power to the priest class w/ a few exceptions msongs Nov 2013 #4
He appears to be trying to avoid blaming anything on anything muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #5
Great observation. trotsky Nov 2013 #10
"When large religious institutions promote oppressive ideals, ZombieHorde Nov 2013 #7
The solution is: Blame God muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #8
How about this fundamental? Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #49
Holy shit, Martin Luther was a fucked up man. nt ZombieHorde Nov 2013 #54
Classic black-and-white thinker Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2013 #66
The question that needs to be asked is, trotsky Nov 2013 #9
The world would be a better place without religion. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #11
It's not going anywhere. What did you think of the article? cbayer Nov 2013 #12
Yes it is. Nonexistence is 'somewhere' in the sense of it being a category. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #20
It is going away in the more advanced, educated countries. Arugula Latte Nov 2013 #30
There is a positive correlation between poverty and religiosity. cbayer Nov 2013 #36
In the west. We've discussed this before. You have to wish away east asia. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #61
Actually, the data is all over the place for China and difficult to verify, but most cbayer Nov 2013 #63
You know, it's this kind of parting shot: trotsky Nov 2013 #64
Kind of, but not really Act_of_Reparation Nov 2013 #77
No, actually the correlation is between poverty and religiosity. cbayer Nov 2013 #78
"those most desperate receive comfort and solace in the belief" trotsky Nov 2013 #80
I don't think it says what you think it says Act_of_Reparation Nov 2013 #81
I don't think we really disagree here. cbayer Nov 2013 #82
Maybe more than you'd think Act_of_Reparation Nov 2013 #83
When large *** promote oppressive ideals, it is the fault of power-hungry, hateful individuals...... dimbear Nov 2013 #13
It is an astoundingly odd statement. Warren Stupidity Nov 2013 #62
I recently read a book about this basic premise Promethean Nov 2013 #14
There was a thread started yesterday on this book. cbayer Nov 2013 #15
Actually, as was pointed out to you on another thread, trotsky Nov 2013 #16
"Absolutely positive" falters on either end of the spectrums, imo. pinto Nov 2013 #33
Great, thanks for your opinion. trotsky Nov 2013 #57
You're welcome. pinto Nov 2013 #58
Oh my Promethean Nov 2013 #17
Of course I read what you wrote. I was just giving my own POV on it. cbayer Nov 2013 #18
Even though I'm not religious, CFLDem Nov 2013 #31
Actually, there would be one less reason. xfundy Nov 2013 #40
Never gonna happen. CFLDem Nov 2013 #43
religion has been around for a very long time madrchsod Nov 2013 #52
Measles, polio, and leprosy have been around a long time too. dimbear Nov 2013 #59
Trey Parker's insight on this subject is hilarious and poignant. Laelth Nov 2013 #76
He and Matt Stone also presented an interesting perspective in Book of Mormon. cbayer Nov 2013 #79
It is the ago-old question of beliefs versus religious enterprises BlueStreak Nov 2013 #101
Personal faith is a problem to society in this instance: Manifestor_of_Light Dec 2013 #112
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