Religion

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)

48. No True Scotsman doesn't really apply

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 09:32 AM

Dec 2013

He's exhorting Christians to be more like what he thinks real Christians should be like. The "No True Scotsman" fallacy, as I understand it, means that no real person of the selected group could be capable of whatever bad action was committed; either the person didn't do it or the person isn't a real Scotsman.

Being a Christian is different because it refers to both a condition (that of belonging to a Christian Congregation) and an aspiration (that of living up to the ideals that Christ taught). By the latter definition, many would argue that there are "no true Christians" but that everybody comes short of the ideals.

In otherwords he was telling people to try a little harder to live up what he believes to be the ideals of their faith. This also applies to your suggestion that his point was that "only Christians are good people," as well.

Bryant

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Highlight:

Pope Francis trashes the ‘prosperity gospel’: Pompous Christians are ugly pagans [View all] DonViejo Dec 2013 OP

The prosperity gospel is John Calvin's false cult. PM Martin Dec 2013 #1

Can you explain how it's related to Calvin and his doctrine. Leontius Dec 2013 #19

If you're saved, supposedly, okasha Dec 2013 #68

as it should be. hollysmom Dec 2013 #2

Nice trashing of Pagans there Frankie... MellowDem Dec 2013 #3

+3327 Angry Dragon Dec 2013 #29

The problem with your post okasha Dec 2013 #69

Nope MellowDem Dec 2013 #78

'a Christian who doesn’t want to humble himself...' freshwest Dec 2013 #4

Do y'all think he will change anyone's behavior? I'm asking seriously. Squinch Dec 2013 #5

Let me answer that question with another one: trotsky Dec 2013 #24

Yes, but at least on some topics, he is asking his followers to respect their better natures. Squinch Dec 2013 #25

No pope in your memory? trotsky Dec 2013 #31

I don't read American Catholic, or the reports of the Catholic Conference of Bishops. Neither do Squinch Dec 2013 #35

LOL trotsky Dec 2013 #44

Whatever, dear. How many of the others made the general public discuss these issues? Squinch Dec 2013 #61

Your use of condescending language is noted, trotsky Dec 2013 #62

And your refusal to engage in anything resembling an actual discussion. Squinch Dec 2013 #63

You made a claim. trotsky Dec 2013 #64

Truly ridiculous. Squinch Dec 2013 #65

Obviously you don't remember John Paul II n/t Act_of_Reparation Dec 2013 #71

I certainly don't remember him taking on Wall Street. Squinch Dec 2013 #72

Oh, I see Act_of_Reparation Dec 2013 #74

Well, so I suppose that answers my original question: Squinch Dec 2013 #75

"in ways he knows will challenge those who can actually do something about it" Goblinmonger Dec 2013 #66

Yes, he will change some people's behavior goldent Dec 2013 #85

I posed the question thinking that would be the case, but seemed to get a lot Squinch Dec 2013 #87

No, the "anger" you encountered was people correcting your false statement. trotsky Dec 2013 #88

Case in point. Squinch Dec 2013 #89

You have yourself a wonderful Christmas, too! trotsky Dec 2013 #90

+10 rug Dec 2013 #91

The difference between Francis okasha Dec 2013 #93

You know that's false, but I guess it makes you happy. skepticscott Dec 2013 #94

That was what I noticed. He appears to be Squinch Dec 2013 #96

Small but loud group. Thanks for posting this and I hope you will continue cbayer Dec 2013 #95

I'm not bothered. Squinch Dec 2013 #97

You, like most people that post here, have a complex and very personal cbayer Dec 2013 #98

It's the way of the world these days. Squinch Dec 2013 #99

I think it's one of the things that makes life so interesting. cbayer Dec 2013 #100

You too! Have a great holiday. Squinch Dec 2013 #101

My favorites among the small and loud okasha Dec 2013 #102

Some points of privilege are so high that others can't even be seen. cbayer Dec 2013 #103

The original "barque of Peter" okasha Dec 2013 #105

Perhaps you'd care to point out even one skepticscott Dec 2013 #106

It's strange, isn't it... trotsky Dec 2013 #107

And there are, I'm happy to say, plenty of those people skepticscott Dec 2013 #108

A vile slander on pagans... nt uriel1972 Dec 2013 #6

The pagans I know, and I know many, rarely strut around Marrah_G Dec 2013 #7

Nothing says "humble" like the Vatican Act_of_Reparation Dec 2013 #8

So what should the Pope do to be more Humble in regards to this place? el_bryanto Dec 2013 #9

A little honesty would be a good start Act_of_Reparation Dec 2013 #12

I do agree the Pagan line was ill chosen el_bryanto Dec 2013 #14

Like I said... honesty. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2013 #18

Pardon me, but I think that's exactly what he is doing. notadmblnd Dec 2013 #28

And I think not. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2013 #38

There are plenty of us pagans okasha Dec 2013 #70

Will you be hosting gladitorial games this Quinquatria? Act_of_Reparation Dec 2013 #73

So you're defending the Pope on this one? okasha Dec 2013 #76

Hardly Act_of_Reparation Dec 2013 #77

LOL trotsky Dec 2013 #10

What's wrong with pagans? trotsky Dec 2013 #11

Yah... cilla4progress Dec 2013 #26

Interesting that the usual Pope cheerleaders Goblinmonger Dec 2013 #13

Take comfort that the usual Pope haters are present and accounted for. rug Dec 2013 #22

I generally don't like homophobes and misogynists Goblinmonger Dec 2013 #23

Is that your justification for, and admission of, Pope hating? rug Dec 2013 #32

I don't like the Pope. Goblinmonger Dec 2013 #43

I'll take that as a yes. rug Dec 2013 #55

Did I stutter? Goblinmonger Dec 2013 #57

No, you made it quite clear. rug Dec 2013 #58

Yes, no need to wonder where the room's most outspoken and self-righteous pagan skepticscott Dec 2013 #36

As a Pope Defender I want to say that while I generally agree with the Popes statements here el_bryanto Dec 2013 #15

Agree that his use of the word pagan is misplaced. cbayer Dec 2013 #16

Oh, "heathen." Yeah, that's a lot better. Goblinmonger Dec 2013 #17

Ha! Don't hold your breath. trotsky Dec 2013 #20

I dunno, methinks "heretics" or "blasphemers" DinahMoeHum Dec 2013 #30

As a heretic and a blasphemer I resent that:)...nt uriel1972 Dec 2013 #33

The point he was trying to make was that they are something other than Christian. cbayer Dec 2013 #34

Poor form?? Why are you afraid to call it what it really is? skepticscott Dec 2013 #37

Pathetic, cbayer. trotsky Dec 2013 #47

Hmmm... I'd say Pontifex Maximus has it ass backwards. Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #81

Sorry, Warren. You have completely missed the point here. cbayer Dec 2013 #82

He certainly has more words to say. Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #83

Pagan bashing, how refreshingly old-fashioned Small Accumulates Dec 2013 #21

why Bash PAgans ? isn't this kind of like the white trash comment of duck dynasty JI7 Dec 2013 #27

No, some here are confused by context. rustbeltvoice Dec 2013 #39

Pagan, as in Roman? rug Dec 2013 #40

I had the same reaction goldent Dec 2013 #41

Correct, a generic term for... trotsky Dec 2013 #49

It is an anceint pejoritive Bradical79 Dec 2013 #60

Well, I may be old, but not ancient goldent Dec 2013 #86

Anceint as in over 1000 years Bradical79 Dec 2013 #92

I believe the term used in the Bible... uriel1972 Dec 2013 #42

Lipstick on a pig, my friend. Goblinmonger Dec 2013 #45

No True Scotsman doesn't really apply el_bryanto Dec 2013 #48

No. rustbeltvoice Dec 2013 #50

What he said was bigoted. Goblinmonger Dec 2013 #51

It's a very small group in actuality. cbayer Dec 2013 #52

Well at least you make sure to get your personal attacks in. trotsky Dec 2013 #53

Speaking of attacking skepticscott Dec 2013 #56

Not only that, but they're in agreement before he typed anything. rug Dec 2013 #67

'Pagan' is here really not used in reference to a group or individuals of current pagans... Act_of_Reparation Dec 2013 #46

Pagan has always been a pejorative, also what you say about charity is not accurate Bradical79 Dec 2013 #59

Pagan's winter solstice is about 25+ hours away. Trillo Dec 2013 #54

Taking it apart... uriel1972 Dec 2013 #79

I guess the pope is allowed a no true Scotsman argument, given the direct line to god. Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #80

This pagan would like to tell him where to stick it Marrah_G Dec 2013 #84

I generally like this pope, but lay off us pagans! truebluegreen Dec 2013 #104