Religion

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)

60. I was raised this way as well, its this part that really lead to me abandoning my faith...

Tue Dec 31, 2013, 05:31 PM

Dec 2013

"So it was never presented as an authoritative source for anything except how we should live our lives/worship."

See, this idea that the Bible should be authoritative, even in this, is just, I don't know, appalling, I mean, I read the book, have you? Anyone who attempts to be consistent would be thrown in jail for being a danger to themselves and others due to the actions that they are encouraged to make by the Bible.

Even if you don't take a story literally, as in being a historical event, what lesson is to be drawn from the story of Abraham and Isaac? Or the Book of Job? I could go on, those were the first two I can think of. Again, even assuming the stories aren't literally true, they are supposed to be allegorical or some type of life lesson, so basically what are those life lessons?

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Belief in God doesn't undermine evolution [View all] cbayer Dec 2013 OP

But it could potentially be incompatible with specific doctrine NoOneMan Dec 2013 #1

That is true, but the article quotes statistics that cbayer Dec 2013 #2

That seems to suggest doctrine is inherently meaningless. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #3

Not necessarily. cbayer Dec 2013 #4

That seems like a different way of saying it is inherently meaningless. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #6

I'm not sure what inherent meaning even means. cbayer Dec 2013 #7

If something has inherent meaning, ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #14

Sounds like you're arguing for objective truth. rug Dec 2013 #20

You are comparing drowning someone, something that can cbayer Dec 2013 #21

If you look for it you will see it here on DU. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #24

It is no surprise that liberal/progressive people of faith would cbayer Dec 2013 #26

There is only a problem if you percieve one. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #28

I think you read it pretty accurately. cbayer Dec 2013 #33

Since theology is ostensibly an attempt skepticscott Jan 2014 #112

Māyā (Sanskrit माया māyā) TexasProgresive Dec 2013 #38

I wish I understood this. cbayer Dec 2013 #42

Well that may've unintentionally been my point TexasProgresive Dec 2013 #57

Well, I still don't understand but it now looks like something cbayer Dec 2013 #61

The closest I come to understanding it was from a friend in 1969 or 70. TexasProgresive Dec 2013 #68

I totally understand where your friend is coming from. cbayer Dec 2013 #72

To extend your thought to the wider cosmos TexasProgresive Dec 2013 #95

How do you know that? nt ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #104

A simple example TexasProgresive Jan 2014 #109

I am not sure what you posted is what I see. ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #103

Relative/arbitrary NoOneMan Dec 2013 #8

Why should it be absolutely and universally true? cbayer Dec 2013 #10

Politics is theory NoOneMan Dec 2013 #13

Religion may be seen as a theory as well. cbayer Dec 2013 #18

Yes, that is a problem NoOneMan Dec 2013 #23

I totally disagree with you. cbayer Dec 2013 #25

What you describe are ideas NoOneMan Dec 2013 #27

I do not think beliefs are immutable, cbayer Dec 2013 #32

"Haven't you?" NoOneMan Dec 2013 #34

So you have had the experience of an extremist. cbayer Dec 2013 #39

No, I had the experience as a believer (someone who believed in absolute truth of a shared doctrine) NoOneMan Dec 2013 #44

I wasn't clear. cbayer Dec 2013 #46

"There are many who do not believe they hold the single truth and that everyone else is wrong." ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #105

What does that have to do with religion? cbayer Jan 2014 #114

You obviously speak from experience, okasha Dec 2013 #76

I am merely regurgitating an academic definition as I have been taught at a secular university NoOneMan Dec 2013 #85

And we wouldn't want believers to seem rational and normal, would we? cbayer Dec 2013 #89

Why should anyone should think they are? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #92

But they are by all measurements we have available. cbayer Dec 2013 #97

Since you regularly mock believers skepticscott Jan 2014 #116

There's one thing wrong with your post. Leontius Dec 2013 #36

Ha! ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #102

Here's the key: trotsky Dec 2013 #5

"Atheists sometimes wield evolution as a hatchet to discredit religion" Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #9

I merely posted the article, so I'm not sure cbayer Dec 2013 #11

Good on you for being so consistent. Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #12

My chance? My chance for what? cbayer Dec 2013 #16

oh, so when you claimed above that your posting of the article did not mean you agreed Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #35

No, it was not at all disingenuous. cbayer Dec 2013 #41

That is true, I mean you've only said you want them to go the way of the dinosaurs. trotsky Dec 2013 #19

I believe in God and evolution. hrmjustin Dec 2013 #15

do you believe that your deity interacts with evolution? Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #37

I don't think so. I really don't think he decides what happens here. hrmjustin Dec 2013 #40

Did "he" ever? Did "he" stop? Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #64

Well I believe he sent Jesus and the prophets, and I pray for strength. I do believe God hrmjustin Dec 2013 #67

I don't believe in God, ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #106

Yes it can. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #110

The qualifier to that is skepticscott Jan 2014 #117

The Catholic Church allows its followers to believe in Evolution Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #172

umm, no that is not ultimately an evolutionary account Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #173

But what if the whole notion of "God doing something" is a metaphor? Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #174

"Possibly a metaphor for a great Nature doing it" Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #175

Agreed. So some Christians might now accept more scientific explanations, as clarification of relig Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #177

I'm sure they'd like to see it that way skepticscott Jan 2014 #180

It might be a way for them to at last admit the value of science though Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #186

Much depends on if the believer sees the Bible as the "literal word of God" or ... spin Dec 2013 #17

I think you are like most people in regards to the bible. cbayer Dec 2013 #43

I would like to think so but I keep running across a lot of Fundamental Christians ... spin Dec 2013 #48

They are definitely out there. cbayer Dec 2013 #51

I've never tried to make it through Ulysses but you got me interested in trying. ... spin Dec 2013 #59

You are going to need much more than luck. cbayer Dec 2013 #65

One advantage of being retired is that I have plenty of time to waste. (n/t) spin Dec 2013 #74

Biblical scholars who have actually sat down to read that book, all of it, Warpy Dec 2013 #69

If you read the entire Bible you may find the Old Testament God is not as likable as Jesus... spin Dec 2013 #83

No, the OT god was a sociopath, corrupt and fickle, just like a Bronze Age warlord Warpy Dec 2013 #88

The serpent in the Garden of Eden was somewhat like the Greek Titan and trickster Prometheus ... spin Dec 2013 #99

folk religion talisman is a pretty fair statement. madrchsod Dec 2013 #90

I have only seen one person who identified as a Christian ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #107

I did not say that people see everything in the bible as allegory, just that cbayer Jan 2014 #115

And no one here is saying people take 100% of the bible literally. ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #145

Don't have to be a believer to recognize it as 'mythology'. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #108

Which atheists make the claims that the author of the op claims they make? Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #22

Which claims? cbayer Dec 2013 #45

This one, in particular... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #58

I think he could have said this much better. cbayer Dec 2013 #63

The argument I would make is faith based ideology impedes scientific... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #70

I think they can be held completely separate and don't cbayer Dec 2013 #73

Not sure how to parse your last sentence... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #77

I see that it is awkward. Let me restate. cbayer Dec 2013 #78

Not sure how that would work, after all, we are talking about a null hypothesis... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #81

There is no evidence of other forms of intelligent life in the universe. cbayer Dec 2013 #82

Everything is tentative to a skeptical mindset, that's what makes it skeptical... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #91

Then should not god be tentative as well? cbayer Dec 2013 #94

There is evidence that intelligent life exists in the universe. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #101

There is evidence of other intelligent life in this universe? cbayer Jan 2014 #113

No cbayer, you still don't get why you made the wrong argument. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #119

The obvious set up you gave me? cbayer Jan 2014 #121

What is your evidence for the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe? Leontius Jan 2014 #126

I have none and that is my point. cbayer Jan 2014 #127

I got it but it just seemed to be missed by others. Leontius Jan 2014 #135

Why do you assume that non-earth based life would be hostile towards us? cbayer Jan 2014 #136

How does the alpha of any group get there? Leontius Jan 2014 #137

What if there is an adaptational advantage to forming alliances? cbayer Jan 2014 #139

Would still only apply untill one attains dominance. Leontius Jan 2014 #143

A paper in Nature in 2010 argued against the probability. Jim__ Jan 2014 #129

Great article, but here is the issue I have with it. cbayer Jan 2014 #130

I agree that our knowledge is limited by our experience. Jim__ Jan 2014 #142

And once more: Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #146

What you are saying would only hold true if someone equated cbayer Jan 2014 #152

I think evolution gave rise to religion, i.e. religion is a function of evolution. pinto Dec 2013 #29

While deeply immersed in the study of genetics and evolution, cbayer Dec 2013 #47

It hasn't stopped with us, I agree. pinto Dec 2013 #62

We are on the same page in this regard. cbayer Dec 2013 #66

To you too, as well. pinto Dec 2013 #71

Religion is no barrier to belief in science Gothmog Dec 2013 #30

I really enjoyed that. Thanks for posting it. cbayer Dec 2013 #49

There are some good works by Orthodox rabbis on Evolution that are very intersting Gothmog Dec 2013 #52

OTOH, I have a friend who is smart and very observant. cbayer Dec 2013 #54

Thank you for this addition to the discussion. pinto Dec 2013 #100

Judaism has a great deal to offer in this area Gothmog Jan 2014 #184

People are marvelously resourceful. They can get god to do nearly anything. immoderate Dec 2013 #31

Agree. It's when humans make their god inflexible that we run into trouble. cbayer Dec 2013 #50

Not fair taking me literally. immoderate Dec 2013 #86

C'mon imm! How else am I supposed to take you?? cbayer Dec 2013 #87

I am on my way to a New Year's Party... immoderate Dec 2013 #96

Back at you. Have a great time. cbayer Dec 2013 #98

We studied biblical history as well as the bible itself. riqster Dec 2013 #53

That's how I was raised as well. cbayer Dec 2013 #55

Well put. riqster Dec 2013 #56

Thanks rigster and welcome to the Religion group. cbayer Jan 2014 #134

Thanks cbayer! riqster Jan 2014 #138

And Happy New Year to you and yours as well. cbayer Jan 2014 #140

I was raised this way as well, its this part that really lead to me abandoning my faith... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #60

We had red letter bibles. riqster Dec 2013 #79

that might have been this plant.... madrchsod Dec 2013 #93

Same here, basically cherry picking, and it didn't help when the book... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #111

The Red Letters are the "supposed" quotes from the Boss and the Boss's Son. riqster Jan 2014 #120

And did your alleged study of "bible history" skepticscott Jan 2014 #123

Fair question. riqster Jan 2014 #124

Oh, a direct, non-flowery approach? skepticscott Jan 2014 #128

I did not say I adhered to it, boyo. riqster Jan 2014 #132

And did your pastor also say skepticscott Jan 2014 #118

Yep. Presbyterians aren't much on that mystical miraculous stuff. riqster Jan 2014 #122

Sorry, but I don't find that remotely credible skepticscott Jan 2014 #125

One cherry-picked bit of info from the Web is no more authoritative than a single Bible quote. riqster Jan 2014 #131

Nice try at bluff and bluster...but those don't fly here skepticscott Jan 2014 #133

Nice try at attempting to make yourself "the authority figure". riqster Jan 2014 #141

Epic fail...just more bluster and distraction skepticscott Jan 2014 #144

"A church formed by the most dour elements of the Scottish and French populations" goldent Jan 2014 #147

You nailed it. okasha Jan 2014 #148

Oh, that is nothing compared to what one deals with in boardrooms. riqster Jan 2014 #151

If you had as little evidence for your assertions in the "boardroom" as you do here skepticscott Jan 2014 #154

Yeah, silly me...I ask them for evidence to back up their claims skepticscott Jan 2014 #153

You claim you know better than the public declarations of the churches muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #150

Hey, he got one person to take his word for it skepticscott Jan 2014 #155

If I might, who is us? cbayer Jan 2014 #156

'Us' is people reading the thread muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #157

OK, i thought you might be presuming to speak for people other than just yourself. cbayer Jan 2014 #158

Oh, you mean like what was done here? skepticscott Jan 2014 #160

That's the difference between 'we' and 'us', isn't it? muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #161

I have asked several people, because I am truly curious, why cbayer Jan 2014 #162

Or just a simple acknowledgement that one is not the only person reading DU muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #163

I think the assumption that anyone is reading a response to you other than cbayer Jan 2014 #164

Of 12 replies to your OP, 8 produced sub-threads involving people other than you muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #165

Still, you speak only for yourself here. cbayer Jan 2014 #166

No, I think I've shown that posts here are usually read by several people muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #167

Yes, technically several people may read a post, I will agree. cbayer Jan 2014 #168

Maybe you're reading too much into the use of 'us', then muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #169

Maybe I am. I've just noted a pattern and cbayer Jan 2014 #170

Make that two people skepticscott Jan 2014 #159

I am a Christian and I believe in evolution arely staircase Dec 2013 #75

No, no! She can't be both! okasha Dec 2013 #80

yeah she rocks nt arely staircase Dec 2013 #84

Belief in god doesn't undermine evolution? Really? skepticscott Jan 2014 #149

Post hoc ergo prompter hoc. LanternWaste Jan 2014 #171

Expecto Patronum! CFLDem Jan 2014 #181

it undermines common sense bowens43 Jan 2014 #176

How so? cbayer Jan 2014 #178

oh dear, where to start...? mike_c Jan 2014 #179

Best post of the thread, +10,000 Act_of_Reparation Jan 2014 #190

Science is pretty incompatible with what many people consider to be God. SolutionisSolidarity Jan 2014 #182

While I think there is a portion of the population that reject some cbayer Jan 2014 #183

I don't rule out the existence of gods. I rule out the idea of a human centric universe, SolutionisSolidarity Jan 2014 #185

I would totally agree with you about the human centric universe. cbayer Jan 2014 #187

So what about the "Nature" all around us, as the latest nominee Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #188

Very interesting take. cbayer Jan 2014 #189

Well edhopper Jan 2014 #191

You are correct. cbayer Jan 2014 #192