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JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
33. Why do bees commit heroic acts?
Sun Jan 12, 2014, 11:53 AM
Jan 2014

A bee will give its life to protect the hive.

That's an act of heroism.

Does the bee need to believe in a God to perform such acts.

how does atheism/materialism account for [View all] arely staircase Jan 2014 OP
It doesn't. But neither does religion. longship Jan 2014 #1
Do those things exist? rug Jan 2014 #2
They exist... rexcat Jan 2014 #3
Can a subjective thing have objective realty? rug Jan 2014 #4
Objective as in a group consensus? TheBlackAdder Jan 2014 #61
Objective as in observable from the outside. rug Jan 2014 #62
Who observes it from the outside, as a neutral with no predispositions? TheBlackAdder Jan 2014 #63
Ok, this is apropos. rug Jan 2014 #65
That's a pyrhhic answer: if all the world is a delusion, then of course EVERYTHING cancels. Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #149
Your last two words are superfluous. rug Jan 2014 #150
Not entirely. We need to make this explicit Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #153
Except the subthread was not discussing religion at all. rug Jan 2014 #155
If all the world is a delusion, then there's no point in ANY discussion Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #159
I agre . . . . rug Jan 2014 #163
For beauty... rexcat Jan 2014 #75
though beauty especially when it comes to art often lacks consensus nt arely staircase Jan 2014 #137
That's a very good question. longship Jan 2014 #6
Well, leaving out atheism for the moment, the OP asked if materialism can explain it. rug Jan 2014 #7
What is bioelectric function? longship Jan 2014 #16
From the Encyclopaeda Britannica TexasProgresive Jan 2014 #19
Well, I said I'm no scientist. rug Jan 2014 #24
they are called human emotion edhopper Jan 2014 #5
I didn't say atheism doesn't accept emotions arely staircase Jan 2014 #8
what does religion say about them? edhopper Jan 2014 #9
too much for me to try to post from my phone arely staircase Jan 2014 #11
your question seems to imply that religion has an answer that is any more edhopper Jan 2014 #13
not just religion but philosophy and art arely staircase Jan 2014 #20
Philosophy and art are not excluded in a materialist outlook muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #21
What does "sacred" mean edhopper Jan 2014 #25
even if one accepted nothing supernatural arely staircase Jan 2014 #52
So you are talking about things edhopper Jan 2014 #70
in the Emile Durkheim since of sacred vs profane. arely staircase Jan 2014 #90
well its an interesting dicotomy edhopper Jan 2014 #92
well put arely staircase Jan 2014 #139
"I am asking what explanation materialism/atheism can give for their existence" NoOneMan Jan 2014 #74
The list contains emotions and desires Theodis Jan 2014 #28
I keep going back to you statement that "feelings are never wrong". cbayer Jan 2014 #31
So the feelings of a stalker edhopper Jan 2014 #38
Oh, I don't mean wrong in that way. My apologies. cbayer Jan 2014 #41
Yes edhopper Jan 2014 #43
Those are not feelings Theodis Jan 2014 #99
Can you give an example by what you mean edhopper Jan 2014 #102
There are basic feelings Theodis Jan 2014 #146
That comes under the category of psychology edhopper Jan 2014 #147
I hear you, but it's a fun topic Theodis Jan 2014 #171
Don't I know it! edhopper Jan 2014 #173
I am not sure what that means edhopper Jan 2014 #34
And the opposite may be true as well. cbayer Jan 2014 #37
I don't think that is true. edhopper Jan 2014 #42
I don't know. I can think of situations where it might be best cbayer Jan 2014 #45
Yes edhopper Jan 2014 #68
Glad to hear it! cbayer Jan 2014 #71
Agreed and I would add Theodis Jan 2014 #100
What does edhopper Jan 2014 #101
"Feelings" - emotions - are a form of conscious experience and don't have "rightness" or "wrongness" Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #49
why are you equating atheism to materialism? ArcticFox Jan 2014 #10
no. though they overlap somewhat. more of an either/or question. nt arely staircase Jan 2014 #12
Don't know for sure but I would guess LostOne4Ever Jan 2014 #14
Yes. Your "guesses" are a great summary. DreamGypsy Jan 2014 #17
Or, Mel Blanc on the Jack Benny program. longship Jan 2014 #35
Thats probably where I got it LostOne4Ever Jan 2014 #106
Oh cool LostOne4Ever Jan 2014 #105
From my point of view these are on the money... uriel1972 Jan 2014 #18
good post nt arely staircase Jan 2014 #138
How does religion/spiritualism account for tennis... DreamGypsy Jan 2014 #15
Unless you're asserting that these things skepticscott Jan 2014 #22
No kidding and materialist science has come up with Warpy Jan 2014 #76
We can begin by looking at one of these things, say love. Jim__ Jan 2014 #23
Great question and really interesting thread so far. cbayer Jan 2014 #26
Not speaking as a scientist okasha Jan 2014 #91
I guess I wonder if there are animals that create just for pleasure. cbayer Jan 2014 #93
Probably. okasha Jan 2014 #95
All part of the human experience. JNelson6563 Jan 2014 #27
Unlike religion which makes up answers for everything, science explains what it can on point Jan 2014 #29
Lol. What evidence do you have that science is on the way to explaining all cbayer Jan 2014 #32
See other answers for example pathways. My hostility is towards the pushing of on point Jan 2014 #40
I think most here will agree that pushing one's religion down someone's throat is wrong. cbayer Jan 2014 #44
Expect bs to be called until and unless you produce evidence on point Jan 2014 #46
IMO, there will never be evidence to either prove or disprove the cbayer Jan 2014 #47
God could prove it. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #50
I'm not going to debate the existence of non-existence of god with you. cbayer Jan 2014 #53
Holding a belief in something not true in reality is the DEFINITION of delusional on point Jan 2014 #55
But first one has to show that it's not true. cbayer Jan 2014 #58
So you wouldn't consider it delusional skepticscott Jan 2014 #64
Sorry but you have it backward. If you assert something, YOU have obligation to show it to be true on point Jan 2014 #69
We were talking specifically about delusions. cbayer Jan 2014 #72
If there's no point in arguing the existence of god(s), there's no point in listening to religions muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #56
Don't listen to them. Who said you needed to? cbayer Jan 2014 #59
A recent experiment with small monkeys would indicate that they do. Two Nay Jan 2014 #30
+1, The field of comparitive Psychology provides numerous examples. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #36
Why do bees commit heroic acts? JoePhilly Jan 2014 #33
How do you see that as heroic as opposed to purely reflexive? cbayer Jan 2014 #39
When a bee lands on you, does it always sting you when you move? JoePhilly Jan 2014 #48
I guess I see where you are going here. cbayer Jan 2014 #51
Each species has its own unique elements. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #67
Actually, science explains it quite nicely skepticscott Jan 2014 #79
Exactly, science continues to identify JoePhilly Jan 2014 #88
Read an interesting theory that a hive is actually one organism, in a sense. Can be seen as a whole. pinto Jan 2014 #89
recent studies suggest many of these traits exist in other animals rurallib Jan 2014 #54
I think both of those things are unanswered questions at this point. cbayer Jan 2014 #60
It really is sad skepticscott Jan 2014 #94
The brain. Duh. -eom gcomeau Jan 2014 #57
The question is how, not where. Duh. -eom rug Jan 2014 #66
"The brain" is the answer to both. DUH. -eom. gcomeau Jan 2014 #77
Ok, "How do I turn on the faucet?" rug Jan 2014 #78
Pathetic analogy fail... gcomeau Jan 2014 #80
It wasn't an analogy. rug Jan 2014 #81
Go look up "analogy" gcomeau Jan 2014 #82
Go look up "how". rug Jan 2014 #83
The video... gcomeau Jan 2014 #84
It wasn't an analogy. rug Jan 2014 #85
I refer you to post 82. -eom gcomeau Jan 2014 #86
We don't need to know all of brain structure; we can see it from ANIMAL BEHAVIOR Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #148
I particulary admire their sculpture. rug Jan 2014 #151
Which some have derived, in stories about learning from animals Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #152
You're drawing a lot of unsupported conclusions from this. rug Jan 2014 #154
Religion in animals IS somewhat speculative; thanks for possibly relevant illustration though Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #156
It was too cute to pass up. rug Jan 2014 #158
So art would be impossible with out God? edhopper Jan 2014 #161
The topic is the material explanation of the abstract, such as art. rug Jan 2014 #162
Okay edhopper Jan 2014 #164
Finally: just as there is a material explanation for art,so also for "love" and elements of religion Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #165
What is it? rug Jan 2014 #166
Brettongarcia edhopper Jan 2014 #167
No, he made a suggestion. rug Jan 2014 #168
So you don't think evolution can explain edhopper Jan 2014 #169
It hasn't been demonstrated. rug Jan 2014 #170
There are several posts here explaining it edhopper Jan 2014 #172
Interesting thread. I think love, hate, friendship, jealousy, heroism, narcissism, beauty, etc. pinto Jan 2014 #73
Well phil89 Jan 2014 #87
Do you think atheists/materialists don't experience emotions? n/t trotsky Jan 2014 #96
The question was whether you can explain it on a material basis. rug Jan 2014 #97
What is the religious explanation for them. edhopper Jan 2014 #98
That's an entirely different question. rug Jan 2014 #108
Evolution edhopper Jan 2014 #110
How does evolution generate emotions? rug Jan 2014 #111
Emotions are a physical response to stimuli edhopper Jan 2014 #112
Resulting in the "The Thinker", Moby Dick and Beethoven's Fifth? rug Jan 2014 #113
Are those the results of emotion. edhopper Jan 2014 #114
They would be piss poor art if they weren't. rug Jan 2014 #115
I then explained how they could come into being edhopper Jan 2014 #116
Ok. I'll find the answer elsewhere. rug Jan 2014 #118
I don't think you'll find an answer to: How does materialism account for these things? Jim__ Jan 2014 #120
Does religion give any explanation for these things? edhopper Jan 2014 #122
I wouldn't know. Of course, if the question is serious and you are interested in an answer ... Jim__ Jan 2014 #123
I am curious where you think they come from. edhopper Jan 2014 #129
I stated my opinion in post #23. Jim__ Jan 2014 #130
Sorry, didn't see it edhopper Jan 2014 #131
OK. Thanks. Jim__ Jan 2014 #145
I suspect you're right. rug Jan 2014 #124
Meaning you're going to ignore the one just provided to you directly? -eom gcomeau Jan 2014 #121
"How'd you like the movie?" rug Jan 2014 #125
So that's a yes then... gcomeau Jan 2014 #126
Was that a yes? rug Jan 2014 #127
Am I distracting you from recess? -eom gcomeau Jan 2014 #128
Evolution. rug Jan 2014 #135
Another yes then... gcomeau Jan 2014 #140
Are you waiting for the answer to change? rug Jan 2014 #141
No, I don't have that level of expectation from you at this point. gcomeau Jan 2014 #142
Would you like the last word? rug Jan 2014 #143
Sure. gcomeau Jan 2014 #144
It's all neurotransmitter and synaptic weights. Shivering Jemmy Jan 2014 #103
Evolution. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2014 #104
Science/materialism doesn't fully, and neither does religion LeftishBrit Jan 2014 #107
for the record I am a Christian who accepts the science of biological evolution arely staircase Jan 2014 #136
Atheism is the lack of a belief in a god or gods. Iggo Jan 2014 #109
I don't know about that. cbayer Jan 2014 #117
Why can't you just accept what people say about their beliefs, or lack thereof? trotsky Jan 2014 #119
LOL. Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #133
You are calling me a bigot? Where do you get bigotry from my post? cbayer Jan 2014 #134
Are those things supposed to be magic? n/t Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #132
Evolution, my friend. longship Jan 2014 #157
In the same way all other animals do. Your question shows a profound ignorance of atheism and ladjf Jan 2014 #160
And a propensity to stir shit up. 2ndAmForComputers Jan 2014 #174
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