Religion

cbayer

(146,218 posts)

58. But first one has to show that it's not true.

Sun Jan 12, 2014, 12:25 PM

Jan 2014

In order for it to be a delusion there has to be strong evidence against it being the case. Do you have that?

Are you truly saying that all religious people are delusional? Except for possibly a few cranks, the psychiatric community would completely disagree with you. Does that make you delusional?

The only thing making me uncomfortable is the need for some to hold out their superiority to others who experience the world differently. It's not a personal matter at all.

Evidence and the lack thereof do concern me. People labeling others as having a psychiatric disorder when there is absolutely no evidence to support that position concerns me.

I will say the same to you. As soon as you push your nonsense, and it is indeed nonsense, into the public discourse, expect it to be challenged for the derisive hokum it is.

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how does atheism/materialism account for [View all] arely staircase Jan 2014 OP

It doesn't. But neither does religion. longship Jan 2014 #1

Do those things exist? rug Jan 2014 #2

They exist... rexcat Jan 2014 #3

Can a subjective thing have objective realty? rug Jan 2014 #4

Objective as in a group consensus? TheBlackAdder Jan 2014 #61

Objective as in observable from the outside. rug Jan 2014 #62

Who observes it from the outside, as a neutral with no predispositions? TheBlackAdder Jan 2014 #63

Ok, this is apropos. rug Jan 2014 #65

That's a pyrhhic answer: if all the world is a delusion, then of course EVERYTHING cancels. Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #149

Your last two words are superfluous. rug Jan 2014 #150

Not entirely. We need to make this explicit Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #153

Except the subthread was not discussing religion at all. rug Jan 2014 #155

If all the world is a delusion, then there's no point in ANY discussion Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #159

I agre . . . . rug Jan 2014 #163

For beauty... rexcat Jan 2014 #75

though beauty especially when it comes to art often lacks consensus nt arely staircase Jan 2014 #137

That's a very good question. longship Jan 2014 #6

Well, leaving out atheism for the moment, the OP asked if materialism can explain it. rug Jan 2014 #7

What is bioelectric function? longship Jan 2014 #16

From the Encyclopaeda Britannica TexasProgresive Jan 2014 #19

Well, I said I'm no scientist. rug Jan 2014 #24

they are called human emotion edhopper Jan 2014 #5

I didn't say atheism doesn't accept emotions arely staircase Jan 2014 #8

what does religion say about them? edhopper Jan 2014 #9

too much for me to try to post from my phone arely staircase Jan 2014 #11

your question seems to imply that religion has an answer that is any more edhopper Jan 2014 #13

not just religion but philosophy and art arely staircase Jan 2014 #20

Philosophy and art are not excluded in a materialist outlook muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #21

What does "sacred" mean edhopper Jan 2014 #25

even if one accepted nothing supernatural arely staircase Jan 2014 #52

So you are talking about things edhopper Jan 2014 #70

in the Emile Durkheim since of sacred vs profane. arely staircase Jan 2014 #90

well its an interesting dicotomy edhopper Jan 2014 #92

well put arely staircase Jan 2014 #139

"I am asking what explanation materialism/atheism can give for their existence" NoOneMan Jan 2014 #74

The list contains emotions and desires Theodis Jan 2014 #28

I keep going back to you statement that "feelings are never wrong". cbayer Jan 2014 #31

So the feelings of a stalker edhopper Jan 2014 #38

Oh, I don't mean wrong in that way. My apologies. cbayer Jan 2014 #41

Yes edhopper Jan 2014 #43

Those are not feelings Theodis Jan 2014 #99

Can you give an example by what you mean edhopper Jan 2014 #102

There are basic feelings Theodis Jan 2014 #146

That comes under the category of psychology edhopper Jan 2014 #147

I hear you, but it's a fun topic Theodis Jan 2014 #171

Don't I know it! edhopper Jan 2014 #173

I am not sure what that means edhopper Jan 2014 #34

And the opposite may be true as well. cbayer Jan 2014 #37

I don't think that is true. edhopper Jan 2014 #42

I don't know. I can think of situations where it might be best cbayer Jan 2014 #45

Yes edhopper Jan 2014 #68

Glad to hear it! cbayer Jan 2014 #71

Agreed and I would add Theodis Jan 2014 #100

What does edhopper Jan 2014 #101

"Feelings" - emotions - are a form of conscious experience and don't have "rightness" or "wrongness" Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #49

why are you equating atheism to materialism? ArcticFox Jan 2014 #10

no. though they overlap somewhat. more of an either/or question. nt arely staircase Jan 2014 #12

Don't know for sure but I would guess LostOne4Ever Jan 2014 #14

Yes. Your "guesses" are a great summary. DreamGypsy Jan 2014 #17

Or, Mel Blanc on the Jack Benny program. longship Jan 2014 #35

Thats probably where I got it LostOne4Ever Jan 2014 #106

Oh cool LostOne4Ever Jan 2014 #105

From my point of view these are on the money... uriel1972 Jan 2014 #18

good post nt arely staircase Jan 2014 #138

How does religion/spiritualism account for tennis... DreamGypsy Jan 2014 #15

Unless you're asserting that these things skepticscott Jan 2014 #22

No kidding and materialist science has come up with Warpy Jan 2014 #76

We can begin by looking at one of these things, say love. Jim__ Jan 2014 #23

Great question and really interesting thread so far. cbayer Jan 2014 #26

Not speaking as a scientist okasha Jan 2014 #91

I guess I wonder if there are animals that create just for pleasure. cbayer Jan 2014 #93

Probably. okasha Jan 2014 #95

All part of the human experience. JNelson6563 Jan 2014 #27

Unlike religion which makes up answers for everything, science explains what it can on point Jan 2014 #29

Lol. What evidence do you have that science is on the way to explaining all cbayer Jan 2014 #32

See other answers for example pathways. My hostility is towards the pushing of on point Jan 2014 #40

I think most here will agree that pushing one's religion down someone's throat is wrong. cbayer Jan 2014 #44

Expect bs to be called until and unless you produce evidence on point Jan 2014 #46

IMO, there will never be evidence to either prove or disprove the cbayer Jan 2014 #47

God could prove it. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #50

I'm not going to debate the existence of non-existence of god with you. cbayer Jan 2014 #53

Holding a belief in something not true in reality is the DEFINITION of delusional on point Jan 2014 #55

But first one has to show that it's not true. cbayer Jan 2014 #58

So you wouldn't consider it delusional skepticscott Jan 2014 #64

Sorry but you have it backward. If you assert something, YOU have obligation to show it to be true on point Jan 2014 #69

We were talking specifically about delusions. cbayer Jan 2014 #72

If there's no point in arguing the existence of god(s), there's no point in listening to religions muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #56

Don't listen to them. Who said you needed to? cbayer Jan 2014 #59

A recent experiment with small monkeys would indicate that they do. Two Nay Jan 2014 #30

+1, The field of comparitive Psychology provides numerous examples. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #36

Why do bees commit heroic acts? JoePhilly Jan 2014 #33

How do you see that as heroic as opposed to purely reflexive? cbayer Jan 2014 #39

When a bee lands on you, does it always sting you when you move? JoePhilly Jan 2014 #48

I guess I see where you are going here. cbayer Jan 2014 #51

Each species has its own unique elements. JoePhilly Jan 2014 #67

Actually, science explains it quite nicely skepticscott Jan 2014 #79

Exactly, science continues to identify JoePhilly Jan 2014 #88

Read an interesting theory that a hive is actually one organism, in a sense. Can be seen as a whole. pinto Jan 2014 #89

recent studies suggest many of these traits exist in other animals rurallib Jan 2014 #54

I think both of those things are unanswered questions at this point. cbayer Jan 2014 #60

It really is sad skepticscott Jan 2014 #94

The brain. Duh. -eom gcomeau Jan 2014 #57

The question is how, not where. Duh. -eom rug Jan 2014 #66

"The brain" is the answer to both. DUH. -eom. gcomeau Jan 2014 #77

Ok, "How do I turn on the faucet?" rug Jan 2014 #78

Pathetic analogy fail... gcomeau Jan 2014 #80

It wasn't an analogy. rug Jan 2014 #81

Go look up "analogy" gcomeau Jan 2014 #82

Go look up "how". rug Jan 2014 #83

The video... gcomeau Jan 2014 #84

It wasn't an analogy. rug Jan 2014 #85

I refer you to post 82. -eom gcomeau Jan 2014 #86

We don't need to know all of brain structure; we can see it from ANIMAL BEHAVIOR Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #148

I particulary admire their sculpture. rug Jan 2014 #151

Which some have derived, in stories about learning from animals Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #152

You're drawing a lot of unsupported conclusions from this. rug Jan 2014 #154

Religion in animals IS somewhat speculative; thanks for possibly relevant illustration though Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #156

It was too cute to pass up. rug Jan 2014 #158

So art would be impossible with out God? edhopper Jan 2014 #161

The topic is the material explanation of the abstract, such as art. rug Jan 2014 #162

Okay edhopper Jan 2014 #164

Finally: just as there is a material explanation for art,so also for "love" and elements of religion Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #165

What is it? rug Jan 2014 #166

Brettongarcia edhopper Jan 2014 #167

No, he made a suggestion. rug Jan 2014 #168

So you don't think evolution can explain edhopper Jan 2014 #169

It hasn't been demonstrated. rug Jan 2014 #170

There are several posts here explaining it edhopper Jan 2014 #172

Interesting thread. I think love, hate, friendship, jealousy, heroism, narcissism, beauty, etc. pinto Jan 2014 #73

Well phil89 Jan 2014 #87

Do you think atheists/materialists don't experience emotions? n/t trotsky Jan 2014 #96

The question was whether you can explain it on a material basis. rug Jan 2014 #97

What is the religious explanation for them. edhopper Jan 2014 #98

That's an entirely different question. rug Jan 2014 #108

Evolution edhopper Jan 2014 #110

How does evolution generate emotions? rug Jan 2014 #111

Emotions are a physical response to stimuli edhopper Jan 2014 #112

Resulting in the "The Thinker", Moby Dick and Beethoven's Fifth? rug Jan 2014 #113

Are those the results of emotion. edhopper Jan 2014 #114

They would be piss poor art if they weren't. rug Jan 2014 #115

I then explained how they could come into being edhopper Jan 2014 #116

Ok. I'll find the answer elsewhere. rug Jan 2014 #118

I don't think you'll find an answer to: How does materialism account for these things? Jim__ Jan 2014 #120

Does religion give any explanation for these things? edhopper Jan 2014 #122

I wouldn't know. Of course, if the question is serious and you are interested in an answer ... Jim__ Jan 2014 #123

I am curious where you think they come from. edhopper Jan 2014 #129

I stated my opinion in post #23. Jim__ Jan 2014 #130

Sorry, didn't see it edhopper Jan 2014 #131

OK. Thanks. Jim__ Jan 2014 #145

I suspect you're right. rug Jan 2014 #124

Meaning you're going to ignore the one just provided to you directly? -eom gcomeau Jan 2014 #121

"How'd you like the movie?" rug Jan 2014 #125

So that's a yes then... gcomeau Jan 2014 #126

Was that a yes? rug Jan 2014 #127

Am I distracting you from recess? -eom gcomeau Jan 2014 #128

Evolution. rug Jan 2014 #135

Another yes then... gcomeau Jan 2014 #140

Are you waiting for the answer to change? rug Jan 2014 #141

No, I don't have that level of expectation from you at this point. gcomeau Jan 2014 #142

Would you like the last word? rug Jan 2014 #143

Sure. gcomeau Jan 2014 #144

It's all neurotransmitter and synaptic weights. Shivering Jemmy Jan 2014 #103

Evolution. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2014 #104

Science/materialism doesn't fully, and neither does religion LeftishBrit Jan 2014 #107

for the record I am a Christian who accepts the science of biological evolution arely staircase Jan 2014 #136

Atheism is the lack of a belief in a god or gods. Iggo Jan 2014 #109

I don't know about that. cbayer Jan 2014 #117

Why can't you just accept what people say about their beliefs, or lack thereof? trotsky Jan 2014 #119

LOL. Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #133

You are calling me a bigot? Where do you get bigotry from my post? cbayer Jan 2014 #134

Are those things supposed to be magic? n/t Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #132

Evolution, my friend. longship Jan 2014 #157

In the same way all other animals do. Your question shows a profound ignorance of atheism and ladjf Jan 2014 #160

And a propensity to stir shit up. 2ndAmForComputers Jan 2014 #174