Religion

cbayer

(146,218 posts)

192. You are correct.

Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:19 AM

Jan 2014

Clearly the evolution issue remains a huge problem. And I recognize that there are some issues around global client change, but that is a smaller part of the population. In fact, some religious groups are using their beliefs to address global climate change.

I was speaking more to science in general.

While there are some religious people who reject the science of modern medicine, the vast majority do not. Same goes for virtually every other area of science, with the glaring exception in the area of evolution.

While I know that religious beliefs interfere with advancement at some times (e.g. stem cell research), I can't think of another area where scientific fact is rejected for a religious explanation other than those I have noted above.

In general, then, I don't think there is a general incompatibility.

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Belief in God doesn't undermine evolution [View all] cbayer Dec 2013 OP

But it could potentially be incompatible with specific doctrine NoOneMan Dec 2013 #1

That is true, but the article quotes statistics that cbayer Dec 2013 #2

That seems to suggest doctrine is inherently meaningless. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #3

Not necessarily. cbayer Dec 2013 #4

That seems like a different way of saying it is inherently meaningless. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #6

I'm not sure what inherent meaning even means. cbayer Dec 2013 #7

If something has inherent meaning, ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #14

Sounds like you're arguing for objective truth. rug Dec 2013 #20

You are comparing drowning someone, something that can cbayer Dec 2013 #21

If you look for it you will see it here on DU. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #24

It is no surprise that liberal/progressive people of faith would cbayer Dec 2013 #26

There is only a problem if you percieve one. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #28

I think you read it pretty accurately. cbayer Dec 2013 #33

Since theology is ostensibly an attempt skepticscott Jan 2014 #112

Māyā (Sanskrit माया māyā) TexasProgresive Dec 2013 #38

I wish I understood this. cbayer Dec 2013 #42

Well that may've unintentionally been my point TexasProgresive Dec 2013 #57

Well, I still don't understand but it now looks like something cbayer Dec 2013 #61

The closest I come to understanding it was from a friend in 1969 or 70. TexasProgresive Dec 2013 #68

I totally understand where your friend is coming from. cbayer Dec 2013 #72

To extend your thought to the wider cosmos TexasProgresive Dec 2013 #95

How do you know that? nt ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #104

A simple example TexasProgresive Jan 2014 #109

I am not sure what you posted is what I see. ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #103

Relative/arbitrary NoOneMan Dec 2013 #8

Why should it be absolutely and universally true? cbayer Dec 2013 #10

Politics is theory NoOneMan Dec 2013 #13

Religion may be seen as a theory as well. cbayer Dec 2013 #18

Yes, that is a problem NoOneMan Dec 2013 #23

I totally disagree with you. cbayer Dec 2013 #25

What you describe are ideas NoOneMan Dec 2013 #27

I do not think beliefs are immutable, cbayer Dec 2013 #32

"Haven't you?" NoOneMan Dec 2013 #34

So you have had the experience of an extremist. cbayer Dec 2013 #39

No, I had the experience as a believer (someone who believed in absolute truth of a shared doctrine) NoOneMan Dec 2013 #44

I wasn't clear. cbayer Dec 2013 #46

"There are many who do not believe they hold the single truth and that everyone else is wrong." ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #105

What does that have to do with religion? cbayer Jan 2014 #114

You obviously speak from experience, okasha Dec 2013 #76

I am merely regurgitating an academic definition as I have been taught at a secular university NoOneMan Dec 2013 #85

And we wouldn't want believers to seem rational and normal, would we? cbayer Dec 2013 #89

Why should anyone should think they are? NoOneMan Dec 2013 #92

But they are by all measurements we have available. cbayer Dec 2013 #97

Since you regularly mock believers skepticscott Jan 2014 #116

There's one thing wrong with your post. Leontius Dec 2013 #36

Ha! ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #102

Here's the key: trotsky Dec 2013 #5

"Atheists sometimes wield evolution as a hatchet to discredit religion" Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #9

I merely posted the article, so I'm not sure cbayer Dec 2013 #11

Good on you for being so consistent. Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #12

My chance? My chance for what? cbayer Dec 2013 #16

oh, so when you claimed above that your posting of the article did not mean you agreed Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #35

No, it was not at all disingenuous. cbayer Dec 2013 #41

That is true, I mean you've only said you want them to go the way of the dinosaurs. trotsky Dec 2013 #19

I believe in God and evolution. hrmjustin Dec 2013 #15

do you believe that your deity interacts with evolution? Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #37

I don't think so. I really don't think he decides what happens here. hrmjustin Dec 2013 #40

Did "he" ever? Did "he" stop? Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #64

Well I believe he sent Jesus and the prophets, and I pray for strength. I do believe God hrmjustin Dec 2013 #67

I don't believe in God, ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #106

Yes it can. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #110

The qualifier to that is skepticscott Jan 2014 #117

The Catholic Church allows its followers to believe in Evolution Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #172

umm, no that is not ultimately an evolutionary account Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #173

But what if the whole notion of "God doing something" is a metaphor? Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #174

"Possibly a metaphor for a great Nature doing it" Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #175

Agreed. So some Christians might now accept more scientific explanations, as clarification of relig Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #177

I'm sure they'd like to see it that way skepticscott Jan 2014 #180

It might be a way for them to at last admit the value of science though Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #186

Much depends on if the believer sees the Bible as the "literal word of God" or ... spin Dec 2013 #17

I think you are like most people in regards to the bible. cbayer Dec 2013 #43

I would like to think so but I keep running across a lot of Fundamental Christians ... spin Dec 2013 #48

They are definitely out there. cbayer Dec 2013 #51

I've never tried to make it through Ulysses but you got me interested in trying. ... spin Dec 2013 #59

You are going to need much more than luck. cbayer Dec 2013 #65

One advantage of being retired is that I have plenty of time to waste. (n/t) spin Dec 2013 #74

Biblical scholars who have actually sat down to read that book, all of it, Warpy Dec 2013 #69

If you read the entire Bible you may find the Old Testament God is not as likable as Jesus... spin Dec 2013 #83

No, the OT god was a sociopath, corrupt and fickle, just like a Bronze Age warlord Warpy Dec 2013 #88

The serpent in the Garden of Eden was somewhat like the Greek Titan and trickster Prometheus ... spin Dec 2013 #99

folk religion talisman is a pretty fair statement. madrchsod Dec 2013 #90

I have only seen one person who identified as a Christian ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #107

I did not say that people see everything in the bible as allegory, just that cbayer Jan 2014 #115

And no one here is saying people take 100% of the bible literally. ZombieHorde Jan 2014 #145

Don't have to be a believer to recognize it as 'mythology'. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #108

Which atheists make the claims that the author of the op claims they make? Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #22

Which claims? cbayer Dec 2013 #45

This one, in particular... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #58

I think he could have said this much better. cbayer Dec 2013 #63

The argument I would make is faith based ideology impedes scientific... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #70

I think they can be held completely separate and don't cbayer Dec 2013 #73

Not sure how to parse your last sentence... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #77

I see that it is awkward. Let me restate. cbayer Dec 2013 #78

Not sure how that would work, after all, we are talking about a null hypothesis... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #81

There is no evidence of other forms of intelligent life in the universe. cbayer Dec 2013 #82

Everything is tentative to a skeptical mindset, that's what makes it skeptical... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #91

Then should not god be tentative as well? cbayer Dec 2013 #94

There is evidence that intelligent life exists in the universe. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #101

There is evidence of other intelligent life in this universe? cbayer Jan 2014 #113

No cbayer, you still don't get why you made the wrong argument. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #119

The obvious set up you gave me? cbayer Jan 2014 #121

What is your evidence for the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe? Leontius Jan 2014 #126

I have none and that is my point. cbayer Jan 2014 #127

I got it but it just seemed to be missed by others. Leontius Jan 2014 #135

Why do you assume that non-earth based life would be hostile towards us? cbayer Jan 2014 #136

How does the alpha of any group get there? Leontius Jan 2014 #137

What if there is an adaptational advantage to forming alliances? cbayer Jan 2014 #139

Would still only apply untill one attains dominance. Leontius Jan 2014 #143

A paper in Nature in 2010 argued against the probability. Jim__ Jan 2014 #129

Great article, but here is the issue I have with it. cbayer Jan 2014 #130

I agree that our knowledge is limited by our experience. Jim__ Jan 2014 #142

And once more: Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #146

What you are saying would only hold true if someone equated cbayer Jan 2014 #152

I think evolution gave rise to religion, i.e. religion is a function of evolution. pinto Dec 2013 #29

While deeply immersed in the study of genetics and evolution, cbayer Dec 2013 #47

It hasn't stopped with us, I agree. pinto Dec 2013 #62

We are on the same page in this regard. cbayer Dec 2013 #66

To you too, as well. pinto Dec 2013 #71

Religion is no barrier to belief in science Gothmog Dec 2013 #30

I really enjoyed that. Thanks for posting it. cbayer Dec 2013 #49

There are some good works by Orthodox rabbis on Evolution that are very intersting Gothmog Dec 2013 #52

OTOH, I have a friend who is smart and very observant. cbayer Dec 2013 #54

Thank you for this addition to the discussion. pinto Dec 2013 #100

Judaism has a great deal to offer in this area Gothmog Jan 2014 #184

People are marvelously resourceful. They can get god to do nearly anything. immoderate Dec 2013 #31

Agree. It's when humans make their god inflexible that we run into trouble. cbayer Dec 2013 #50

Not fair taking me literally. immoderate Dec 2013 #86

C'mon imm! How else am I supposed to take you?? cbayer Dec 2013 #87

I am on my way to a New Year's Party... immoderate Dec 2013 #96

Back at you. Have a great time. cbayer Dec 2013 #98

We studied biblical history as well as the bible itself. riqster Dec 2013 #53

That's how I was raised as well. cbayer Dec 2013 #55

Well put. riqster Dec 2013 #56

Thanks rigster and welcome to the Religion group. cbayer Jan 2014 #134

Thanks cbayer! riqster Jan 2014 #138

And Happy New Year to you and yours as well. cbayer Jan 2014 #140

I was raised this way as well, its this part that really lead to me abandoning my faith... Humanist_Activist Dec 2013 #60

We had red letter bibles. riqster Dec 2013 #79

that might have been this plant.... madrchsod Dec 2013 #93

Same here, basically cherry picking, and it didn't help when the book... Humanist_Activist Jan 2014 #111

The Red Letters are the "supposed" quotes from the Boss and the Boss's Son. riqster Jan 2014 #120

And did your alleged study of "bible history" skepticscott Jan 2014 #123

Fair question. riqster Jan 2014 #124

Oh, a direct, non-flowery approach? skepticscott Jan 2014 #128

I did not say I adhered to it, boyo. riqster Jan 2014 #132

And did your pastor also say skepticscott Jan 2014 #118

Yep. Presbyterians aren't much on that mystical miraculous stuff. riqster Jan 2014 #122

Sorry, but I don't find that remotely credible skepticscott Jan 2014 #125

One cherry-picked bit of info from the Web is no more authoritative than a single Bible quote. riqster Jan 2014 #131

Nice try at bluff and bluster...but those don't fly here skepticscott Jan 2014 #133

Nice try at attempting to make yourself "the authority figure". riqster Jan 2014 #141

Epic fail...just more bluster and distraction skepticscott Jan 2014 #144

"A church formed by the most dour elements of the Scottish and French populations" goldent Jan 2014 #147

You nailed it. okasha Jan 2014 #148

Oh, that is nothing compared to what one deals with in boardrooms. riqster Jan 2014 #151

If you had as little evidence for your assertions in the "boardroom" as you do here skepticscott Jan 2014 #154

Yeah, silly me...I ask them for evidence to back up their claims skepticscott Jan 2014 #153

You claim you know better than the public declarations of the churches muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #150

Hey, he got one person to take his word for it skepticscott Jan 2014 #155

If I might, who is us? cbayer Jan 2014 #156

'Us' is people reading the thread muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #157

OK, i thought you might be presuming to speak for people other than just yourself. cbayer Jan 2014 #158

Oh, you mean like what was done here? skepticscott Jan 2014 #160

That's the difference between 'we' and 'us', isn't it? muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #161

I have asked several people, because I am truly curious, why cbayer Jan 2014 #162

Or just a simple acknowledgement that one is not the only person reading DU muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #163

I think the assumption that anyone is reading a response to you other than cbayer Jan 2014 #164

Of 12 replies to your OP, 8 produced sub-threads involving people other than you muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #165

Still, you speak only for yourself here. cbayer Jan 2014 #166

No, I think I've shown that posts here are usually read by several people muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #167

Yes, technically several people may read a post, I will agree. cbayer Jan 2014 #168

Maybe you're reading too much into the use of 'us', then muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #169

Maybe I am. I've just noted a pattern and cbayer Jan 2014 #170

Make that two people skepticscott Jan 2014 #159

I am a Christian and I believe in evolution arely staircase Dec 2013 #75

No, no! She can't be both! okasha Dec 2013 #80

yeah she rocks nt arely staircase Dec 2013 #84

Belief in god doesn't undermine evolution? Really? skepticscott Jan 2014 #149

Post hoc ergo prompter hoc. LanternWaste Jan 2014 #171

Expecto Patronum! CFLDem Jan 2014 #181

it undermines common sense bowens43 Jan 2014 #176

How so? cbayer Jan 2014 #178

oh dear, where to start...? mike_c Jan 2014 #179

Best post of the thread, +10,000 Act_of_Reparation Jan 2014 #190

Science is pretty incompatible with what many people consider to be God. SolutionisSolidarity Jan 2014 #182

While I think there is a portion of the population that reject some cbayer Jan 2014 #183

I don't rule out the existence of gods. I rule out the idea of a human centric universe, SolutionisSolidarity Jan 2014 #185

I would totally agree with you about the human centric universe. cbayer Jan 2014 #187

So what about the "Nature" all around us, as the latest nominee Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #188

Very interesting take. cbayer Jan 2014 #189

Well edhopper Jan 2014 #191

You are correct. cbayer Jan 2014 #192