Religion

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)

230. Seems like you're keeping all the devices for yourself.

Reply to rug (Reply #229)

Wed Jan 29, 2014, 08:37 PM

Jan 2014

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Maryland mom kills 2 of her children during attempted exorcism [View all] trotsky Jan 2014 OP

The problem isn't necessarily the exorcism. Htom Sirveaux Jan 2014 #1

How do you know? trotsky Jan 2014 #3

As I said, then I would agree that the underlying belief Htom Sirveaux Jan 2014 #4

Well, not quite. trotsky Jan 2014 #5

Think she mighta just stabbed 'em anyway? Iggo Jan 2014 #44

"... Zakieya L. Avery .. was charged .. with two counts of first-degree murder struggle4progress Jan 2014 #72

Are you actually using these people to attempt a dubious point about religion? rug Jan 2014 #2

First of all it was two women, only one of whom is covered by your post. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #6

Bullshit. rug Jan 2014 #8

Who said anything about their being stupid? Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #19

Your privilege is showing, Warren. rug Jan 2014 #20

Your shamelessness is evident. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #22

I'm not the one trying to score points with dead children. rug Jan 2014 #23

Funny. Happens to me all the time in the Gungeon. AtheistCrusader Jan 2014 #25

Hilarious. rug Jan 2014 #26

Yes we can judge them. They killed two children so yes we can judge them. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #7

How do you know their religious beliefs were false? n/t trotsky Jan 2014 #9

I don't give a damn what the hell their religious beliefs are!!! hrmjustin Jan 2014 #10

According to some, unless we can prove their beliefs are wrong... trotsky Jan 2014 #11

Listen I am all for religious tolerance but there are lines and this clearly crosses it. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #12

So you're intolerant, in other words skepticscott Jan 2014 #13

If someone is hurting someone else either physically or mentally based on their religious hrmjustin Jan 2014 #14

Good, then we agree that such things skepticscott Jan 2014 #15

I think it's pretty shitty Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #45

On the contrary skepticscott Jan 2014 #55

I disagree LeftishBrit Jan 2014 #106

Perhaps I should have been clearer skepticscott Jan 2014 #109

See, I don't care about testing principles here though Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #117

You don't have to care skepticscott Jan 2014 #118

I care about not killing people Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #120

You hold the same misguided view skepticscott Jan 2014 #123

I know you believe that Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #131

It's not a matter of "believing" skepticscott Jan 2014 #142

Extreme situations are often where we find holes in logic. trotsky Jan 2014 #68

I get that people are searching for answers Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #119

But what about an "answer" found in a "faith filled way"? trotsky Jan 2014 #138

But can one not say the same about any sort of beliefs? LeftishBrit Jan 2014 #130

I 100% agree with this Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #132

Absolutely! trotsky Jan 2014 #134

Very, very well said! Htom Sirveaux Jan 2014 #207

A "raving lunatic" LOL. How low can you limbo dance to justify such bigotry? Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #93

Since you failed miserably to provide any evidence skepticscott Jan 2014 #96

You provide the evidence in many of your posts. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #99

Ah, yes, the old "I've already given the evidence" dodge skepticscott Jan 2014 #100

I think there's a clear criterion here. okasha Jan 2014 #16

Yes. We do not allow acts of violence or murder against another. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #17

But surely she didn't *intend* to kill her children. trotsky Jan 2014 #57

"... Zakieya L. Avery .. was charged .. with two counts of first-degree murder struggle4progress Jan 2014 #73

We can certainly judge her by what the law says. trotsky Jan 2014 #75

I have seen no reporting on the "religious beliefs" of either Avery and Sanford, so struggle4progress Jan 2014 #77

Great! trotsky Jan 2014 #80

cbayer's husband should be chiming in any minute Goblinmonger Jan 2014 #125

And what about the other xtians that influenced them? seattledo Jan 2014 #53

The church that they belonged to are distancing themselves from this. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #58

Feel free to provide actual evidence about influences on Zakieya Avery and Monifa Sanford struggle4progress Jan 2014 #74

What we have heard so far from the police is that the women claimed... trotsky Jan 2014 #83

seattledo indicated "the other xtians that influenced them ... share at least some of the blame" struggle4progress Jan 2014 #108

So, do you have any evidence the police or women are lying? n/t trotsky Jan 2014 #135

Here's another link on the Maranatha Brethren Church and Avery: struggle4progress Jan 2014 #111

Yep, a disturbing church and set of religious beliefs to be sure. trotsky Jan 2014 #136

It's a sad story, about the murder of several children whose mother has a history of mental illness struggle4progress Jan 2014 #18

We know they were conducting a religious ritual. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #21

Really? And what religious ritual does a psychotic mind follow? rug Jan 2014 #24

Is it your claim that a psychotic person cannot practice religion? Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #31

What's the ritual performed in their psychotic state, Warren? rug Jan 2014 #32

You know they were in a psychotic state? Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #39

You know they were performing a religious ritual? rug Jan 2014 #107

You've asserted they were in a psychotic state, based on what evidence? Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #110

You've asserted they were performing a religious ritual. rug Jan 2014 #116

I see, you know you put yourself in a corner and now you are just playing last word. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #122

I'm not out on a limb claiming these murders are a religious ritual. rug Jan 2014 #141

You got links for any of that? struggle4progress Jan 2014 #27

Maryland mom kills 2 of her children during attempted exorcism. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #29

So you've established that the headline editor here used the word "exorcism." But that seems struggle4progress Jan 2014 #33

The police, as has been reported many times, have stated this. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #38

It's a strange quote: did all "police" chant this is unison? Or is it from some definite person struggle4progress Jan 2014 #40

Really? That is your argument? Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #51

"She thought the devil was in the kids" trotsky Jan 2014 #71

That might move closer to actual facts: it indicates Marcus Jones used the word "exorcism" struggle4progress Jan 2014 #76

You can believe what you want to believe. trotsky Jan 2014 #79

I have taken no stand on such questions as "What did Avery and Sanford believe?" struggle4progress Jan 2014 #82

The basis I am using is what the police have said. trotsky Jan 2014 #84

We don't know that they were conducting a religious ritual. kwassa Jan 2014 #28

We have had multiple reports from the police stating exactly that. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #30

Do feel free to post links to any of those reports struggle4progress Jan 2014 #34

From the link at the op. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #36

You claimed "We have .. multiple reports from the police" -- but provide no links to police reports struggle4progress Jan 2014 #43

Ah - indeed, I meant multiple reports of the police clearly stating Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #47

So far, what we actually know is that Captain Marcus Jones, director struggle4progress Jan 2014 #78

... Montgomery County Police Department Capt. Marcus Jones ..., who spent hours struggle4progress Jan 2014 #166

And that link says they were prepared for an exorcism muriel_volestrangler Jan 2014 #220

I already summarized all that two days ago in my #113 down-thread struggle4progress Jan 2014 #221

... Investigators spoke to the pastor of the church Avery attended, struggle4progress Jan 2014 #168

Again I ask... trotsky Jan 2014 #178

It may be a while skepticscott Jan 2014 #180

There is only one police force involved, with one report. No specifics. kwassa Jan 2014 #35

You all seem to have your own facts. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #37

Have I stated one untrue thing? Nope. kwassa Jan 2014 #42

"jumping to a conclusion" - no, restating the undisputed account of this crime. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #50

Actually Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #46

Who said the police "condoned the exorcism" - seriously wtf? Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #48

Nobody said that.... Dorian Gray Jan 2014 #121

You have presented a false dilemma. trotsky Jan 2014 #139

The single largest Christian church on the planet still acknowledges exorcism as a real procedure... trotsky Jan 2014 #54

I have to say I am having a hard time putting into words what I think of exorcism. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #41

Thank you. I can't imagine why people are pretending this wasn't one Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #49

... Montgomery County Police Department Capt. Marcus Jones ..., who spent hours struggle4progress Jan 2014 #115

I think we can agree that people can think they are performing an exorcism and... trotsky Jan 2014 #140

... Investigators spoke to the pastor of the church Avery attended, struggle4progress Jan 2014 #161

Well clearly we have every reason to trust the pastor of the church... trotsky Jan 2014 #167

Is it possible for someone who is NOT mentally ill... trotsky Jan 2014 #56

While I believe the exorcism was idiotic get the red out Jan 2014 #52

Oh, there's mental illness at play, alrighty. Iggo Jan 2014 #60

What would you stab the exorcisee? goldent Jan 2014 #59

You can certainly think that if you want. trotsky Jan 2014 #61

I have a little evidence goldent Jan 2014 #62

But what if you believed that by stabbing the possessed individual... trotsky Jan 2014 #64

Pssst, hey trotsky... Youre using logic. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #65

I've never heard of anything like that goldent Jan 2014 #66

Is there only one way an exorcism can be performed? trotsky Jan 2014 #67

Well I've put in the 2 cents of my skepticism goldent Jan 2014 #70

The mental gymnastics that many are performing to remove blame from religion here is impressive. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #63

It's truly an interesting thing to observe, no doubt. n/t trotsky Jan 2014 #69

It is quite understandable seeing as how many of those gyrating also Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #85

Exactly. n/t trotsky Jan 2014 #86

You have so distorted this that it has become unrecognizable. cbayer Jan 2014 #87

Just a harmless ritual, a metaphor. nt. Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #88

When done by a priest it generally is a harmless ritual. cbayer Jan 2014 #89

except of course when it isn't, as was documented in the other discussion, and which evidence you Warren Stupidity Jan 2014 #90

Exactly right. cbayer Jan 2014 #92

What is your obsession with "points," cbayer? trotsky Jan 2014 #94

How about if the church just said instead skepticscott Jan 2014 #95

Wait, so when you accuse other DUers of promoting genocide... trotsky Jan 2014 #91

Except that it makes people not get the help they really need. Goblinmonger Jan 2014 #126

... Montgomery County Police Department Capt. Marcus Jones ..., who spent hours struggle4progress Jan 2014 #114

I'd like to see her evaluated for postpartum psychosis Warpy Jan 2014 #81

Oh Trottles. Why are you still peddling this hateful, intolerant drivel. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #97

I realize how much you love to post personal insults, ST. trotsky Jan 2014 #98

Oh Trottles. What personal insult? Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #101

I am really not sure why you choose to engage in such malicious, abusive behavior. trotsky Jan 2014 #102

Are you ready to discuss your behavior and the points I made? Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #103

I will respond when your nasty, passive-aggressive attacks and smears stop. trotsky Jan 2014 #104

More passive-aggressive bullshit. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #112

Pot, meet kettle skepticscott Jan 2014 #105

Hey, justin in showing a good amount of intolerance up above Goblinmonger Jan 2014 #127

Really? Intolerance of what exactly? Murder? Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #144

You're the only one here skepticscott Jan 2014 #145

I would like to request you stop using that nickname for me. trotsky Jan 2014 #147

"Imagery"? What imagery? Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #151

Of course I can't stop you from using whatever names you want on me. trotsky Jan 2014 #154

I act like an adult in adult situations. Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #186

*sigh* trotsky Jan 2014 #189

You did not post this as "an example of religious beliefs gone bad" Starboard Tack Jan 2014 #196

Inflammatory? Oh, please skepticscott Jan 2014 #192

This message was self-deleted by its author cleanhippie Jan 2014 #197

Not hard to see skepticscott Jan 2014 #152

After more research, I have found accounts attributed to Montgomery county prosecutor, struggle4progress Jan 2014 #113

Yup, more religious ties. trotsky Jan 2014 #137

Of course we cannot fully try a case, until it goes to court; all facts are not in evidence yet.But Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #148

I disagree. okasha Jan 2014 #211

Let's get this straight skepticscott Jan 2014 #212

Nope, nothing at all to do with mental illness. rug Jan 2014 #213

Mental illness is not an exclusive diagnosis; they could be mentally ill AND religious Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #214

Speculation amd supposition okasha Jan 2014 #216

1) Exorcism is part of much Christianity; the individual church or not, that's the background. Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #217

I hate to be the one to break this to you, okasha Jan 2014 #231

Read the papers: the Church is currently training more exorcists; it thinks it needs them Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #232

The papers don't seem to have that link I requested. okasha Jan 2014 #234

And they are two entirely different things. rug Jan 2014 #219

I hope the times are changing; but the murderous past of Christianity is all over the Old Testament Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #233

See this is why the religious forum is a waste of time el_bryanto Jan 2014 #124

This is pretty on point Goblinmonger Jan 2014 #128

You've already made it perfectly clear you don't care what I think. trotsky Jan 2014 #133

You seem to weigh in here a lot skepticscott Jan 2014 #143

I disagree that this group is a waste of time cbayer Jan 2014 #146

Some of us also see that skepticscott Jan 2014 #149

Youre lucky this isnt real life where you would have to say that with a straight face to others. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #150

Yes, we can see the much larger group skepticscott Jan 2014 #155

I've wondered the same thing about the group that inhabits the Bitch & Moan group. Leontius Jan 2014 #185

Ironically, it was bitching and moaning skepticscott Jan 2014 #191

Why? Is that a threat? rug Jan 2014 #201

U mad, bro? cleanhippie Jan 2014 #215

At internet tough guys? rug Jan 2014 #218

Lol cleanhippie Jan 2014 #222

I couldn't possibly. You provide too much entertainment. rug Jan 2014 #223

Cool story, bro. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #224

. rug Jan 2014 #225

Nice summation of your argument. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #226

. . rug Jan 2014 #227

Nice selfie. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #228

I can't say it hasn't been productive but I'll leave you to your own devices now. rug Jan 2014 #229

Seems like you're keeping all the devices for yourself. cleanhippie Jan 2014 #230

Very true, cbayer. trotsky Jan 2014 #156

�A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel. � - Robert Frost el_bryanto Jan 2014 #160

And evidently a number of them who are committed to making false claims about others. n/t trotsky Jan 2014 #162

You can lie about my record all you want el_bryanto Jan 2014 #164

I'll happily answer that question when you retract your vicious smear and apologize. trotsky Jan 2014 #170

I understand that. cbayer Jan 2014 #165

There are two types of posts (generally) in this forum el_bryanto Jan 2014 #169

Or, to put it another way, it's the ones where people take the bait. cbayer Jan 2014 #171

I must miss those conversations. nt el_bryanto Jan 2014 #172

It all depends on who you choose to engage with. nt. cbayer Jan 2014 #177

This is why, cbayer, when you make your comments about "teams" and "points"... trotsky Jan 2014 #184

I think the wisest choice, for believers, is not to engage this board at all nt el_bryanto Jan 2014 #190

And will you be skepticscott Jan 2014 #193

You keep asking so I'll just answer. el_bryanto Jan 2014 #194

I don't think it is useful to pretend you are somehow above the behavior you claim to oppose. trotsky Jan 2014 #199

You do keep distorting the record el_bryanto Jan 2014 #202

I've distorted nothing. trotsky Jan 2014 #203

"You, for instance, labeled everyone who criticized the pope with a vicious personal smear." el_bryanto Jan 2014 #204

I stand by my TRUE statement. trotsky Jan 2014 #205

I'm happy to own them. They are accurate. el_bryanto Jan 2014 #206

I do see how pointless this is. trotsky Jan 2014 #209

Oh my gosh skepticscott Jan 2014 #210

Linkie? rug Jan 2014 #208

I would ask that you reconsider that position, but it is cbayer Jan 2014 #195

Ah, "to advance the causes and candidates that this site is set up to promote" skepticscott Jan 2014 #198

Yes, we know you'd love a forum that was all threads skepticscott Jan 2014 #175

And yet, you'd be unable skepticscott Jan 2014 #174

Like I said, it's a very small group. cbayer Jan 2014 #153

Agreed! hrmjustin Jan 2014 #157

So true! trotsky Jan 2014 #159

Aw, that's cute. trotsky Jan 2014 #158

Couldn't care less what pathetic things you do to boost your belief in the ridiculous. mr blur Jan 2014 #163

I understand it can be frustrating at times to be a believer here. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #176

Ah, yes skepticscott Jan 2014 #179

You know other than you and a few others most of the atheists here are very nice to me. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #181

You're free to take whatever tone you feel is effective skepticscott Jan 2014 #182

As I said, you can make your points while being polite. How you handle yourself is hrmjustin Jan 2014 #183

Thank you so much skepticscott Jan 2014 #187

Look you don't like me then don't bother with me. If you don't want to hear my hrmjustin Jan 2014 #188

It's more a reason why the OP should not be taken seriously. rug Jan 2014 #200

Truly horrible. LeftishBrit Jan 2014 #129

This is the problem with religious beliefs.. Swede Atlanta Jan 2014 #173